new type of "hybrid" car system?

road,

routes

minimum.

Yes, but not as they are driiving down the road, on a mile-by-mile basis, as the rail user does. Specifally, the road user doesn't pay any direct charge for the original cost of acquiring the land and building the road, which is always figured into the cost of any rail- or track-based mass transit system, and that does distort the economics.

When the railways were built, around a century earlier, they stimulated the economy no end, and did a great deal for the war effort in the war between the states, but nobody subsidised them back then.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

road,

routes

minimum.

As usual, you haven't a f****ng clue what you're talking about. Ever hear of the railroad land-grants?

Oh, there were no subsidies for railroads? You are either chronically stupid or an oughtright liar.

One little hint:

--
  Keith

Damn, you're an unpleasant person! Too busy posturing, stomping your foot, and trying to win something, I don't know what, on real or imagined technicalities.

--
"The main, if not the only, function of the word aether has been to 
furnish a nominative case to the verb \'to undulate\'." 
  -- the Earl of Salisbury, 1894

to

Sometimes right, sometimes wrong, never in doubt.

You can wiggle all you want, but you *were* trying to pass off a lie. Get over it.

--
  Keith

He said stand by a freeway and count V8's. I don't know how to count V8's from a freeway. I said what I counted, and I didn't say it was V8's. I don't know what you think I lied about, but you're so busy trying to score points that you're unable to communicate.

--
"We don\'t grow up hearing stories around the camp fire anymore about
cultural figures. Instead we get them from books, TV or movies, so the
characters that today provide us a common language are corporate
creatures" -- Rebecca Tushnet

road,

routes

minimum.

In the US, the users pay for ALL of it, start to finish and up front based on fuel and vehicles taxes previously collected.

Once a road is built, it has been payed for. Ongoing maintenance comes from the same set of taxes.

You haven't a clue how it works here.

What in the world are you babbling about?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

And the sulphur mostly comes from home grown oil.

Why do you think that the US exports and imports oil at the same time?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

road,

speed

each

routes

$1/mile minimum.

You would seem to be suffering from a spot of acute stupidty yourself, or at least aggravated word blindness - the land grants weren't subsidies, which are payments to sustain an exisitng service, but grants to encourage the creation of a new service.

The clue is in the fact that the land granted was essentially worthless until the railway line to service it had been built - the government wasn't giving the railway companies cash as such, but rather making their stock more attractive to investors, who were the people who actually paid for the track-laying, the rails and the rolling stock, and who lost their money if the railway company went bankrupt, as some of them did.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

road,

speed

each

routes

$1/mile minimum.

riders"

they

You don't seem to have clue how it works anywhere.

A user chooses between sending goods by rail or road on the basis of the marginal cost.

They may well have paid the whole cost of buidling a road, but they don't have to pay more to use the road, and they don't get any money back if they don't use the road, so there is a built-in encouragement for them to use the road, rather than the rairoad, where they have to pay enough to cover all the rail-road company's costs, including the dividends to the investors who provided the original capital.

Note that this is much the same probem as comes up because the user has to buy a car In order to use the road, which then encourages the user to choose to use the road in order to maximise the return on the investment in the car (which sits there, chewing up interest and depreciation, whether it is used or not).

This is one of those little inflexibilities that make free market economies less efficient than right-wing economists like to claim.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

minimum.

Do you honestly believe that? Most streets come out of county or city budgeting. In most states gas taxes don't even cover repairs on the roads, much less any new construction. Gas taxes USA wide in 2001 were $45 billion. Road/highway costs in 2001 were $133 billion with the breakdown in funding as follows:

35% Gas taxes 20% Vehicle taxes 15% General fund appropriations 10% Non-auto taxes and fees, investment income 10% Borrowed 5% Property taxes 5% Tolls

--
Aaron

We don't even have enough oil to satisfy our non-fuel related oil usage.

--
Aaron

minimum.

Only maintenance, and that come from gasoline taxes (at least in Arizona). Initial street construction costs are borne by the home buyer who gets use of the street.

Initial highway/freeway construction costs in Arizona are from gasoline taxes plus (in the Phoenix metro area) a 0.5% retail sales tax which we voted for.

MOST states ain't Arizona... if you live in the blue states or Europe... 'tain't my problem ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

minimum.

According to the A-DOT 2004 FY budget less than 1/3 of A-DOT expenditures were paid for by gasoline taxes.

--
Aaron

the road,

speed

each

major routes

the

$1/mile minimum.

riders"

upkeeep

they

A problem I see with this discussion generally is that our esteemed American friends seem to think it appropriate to export the 'American model' vire of things regardless of relevant local factors,

With the long inter-city distances in the USA, rail is more problematic for passenger travel. In Europe and Japan though it's ideal.

See TGV for a perfect example. Comparable in speed ( overall jouney time ) to travelling by jet and conveniently takes you to the city centre too.

Graham

[snip]

URL?

All I'm finding says 96% is from State Highway Fund (whatever that means) and balance from State Aviation Fund.

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |

| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Actually, at least in California, the problem is that the gas taxes go first to the state general fund, and then is channeled to the tranit dept. It is a great source of revenue, since they bring in a lot more in taxes than is used for road construction!

Charlie

minimum.

You are talking about the US, right? Those trans-continental railroads were heavily subsidised, basically by huge land grants on either side of the right of way...

Charlie

I suspect it's true here as well. ADOT is the most obtuse obstinate department in this state.

I know for sure that gasoline taxes plus the sales tax we voted for more freeways partially goes to light rail.

I think it's time we got out the tar and feathers.

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.