New Type of Clock

I'm not familiar with the product, but if I were designing something like that (multiple clocks on a campus), there'd be a single GPS receiver in an advantageous location, and the clocks would sync up with some sort of power-line carrier scheme.

Did they look anything like this ?

Graham

There is one (or more?) commercial products that do exactly that.

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Well, that's the same setup that Simplex uses, and we're _abandoning_ that system. The system sucks, is horribly overpriced, and has other problems, one of which is high maintenance costs. Our Simplex doesn't use GPS, it uses a master clock, and a power line carrier.

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com...

That's going to be a pain. I assume Microsoft, for XP users anyway, will have an update to change the DST date but I have other software that will be confused. Also VCRs (I still use those) and TVs (not important).

Bill

It would be a bit amusing if some of the chaos that was predicted for Y2K was triggered by a change in DST dates. ;-)

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

What works even better, IMO: Have the master clock be a type that syncs to GPS, and then puts out an easily-distributed 1kHz audio carrier modulated with IRIG-B timecode. All you need then is a bunch of 'slave' displays, each with a simple IRIG-B decoder in them.

I've been using this type of system at home for years, using (mostly) surplus hardware, and I suspect NASA has been using a similar sort of arrangement for at least a few decades, considering that they were the ones who either invented, or first made wide use of, IRIG-B code (corrections and further info welcome).

Keep the peace(es).

I have been involved in commercial clock systems that use GPS. There is a master GPS receiver with its antenna in site to the satellite. There is a data cable that also carries the power to run the clocks. They can be programmed to follow any time standard, or offset for the time zones, as how the administrator wishes. Some have elaborate features that can make them work off a shared Ethernet system with the business computers, and go through the routers. In this case a software can be installed in the administrator's computer, for setting up and checking the clock system.

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As for your home WWV clocks, some models have to be set very close to the proper time, and then they will be synced up. The better models will set themselves completely, and automatically to the timezone that has been set in to them by the user.

There are many new models of WWV clocks coming on to the market now, since they are getting very low in cost to manufacture. In different parts of the world, they are using the appropriate time service that is available in the area. This is something to consider when traveling with one of these clocks to foreign countries, or to a different zone than what it was sold for.

Here in Canada, we are using both WWV and CHU Canada. These are using different frequencies. Some models of clocks sold here will not work in the US, as some that are sold in the US will not work here in Canada. Some models that are sold in the east side of North America may not work in the West side of North America.

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JANA _____

He said that they set themselves, so I assumed he meant they received the WWVB signal, but he said they used the signal from the GPS satellites. This, to me, was a definite improvement over the 60kHz WWVB signal, because it's not so prone to interference. I think it's up around 1.6GHz but in any case, it's not down where the fluorescent lights interfere with it, like WWVB. I should've asked him for some product literature to see what they can do. Maybe they set themselves to daylight savings time. They operate off the AC power, not batteries, so they don't need to be taken down every year or two to replace the AA cell. That's an improvement, however the AA cell clocks usually have to be reset twice a year anyway[1].

He left the LCD 'atomic' clock on the wall, the one that receives WWVB, and is off by a couple minutes. Ever since I've checked it when I happen by, it's been off a few minutes. This one and another somewhere else never have set themselves correctly. One thing that might have contributed to the problem is that this clock sets into or over a recessed steel box high up on the wall just for a clock. So the shielding may contribute to its poor performance. At least it's off by a consistent amount so that once you know its quirks, you can compensate for it.

Oh, BTW I set my watch to WWV and to a cheapo atomic clock that does set itself correctly. My watch is usually within a few seconds of right on. ;-}

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The manual for the new VCR I got said that it uses the time signal imbedded in the PBS or some other network to set itself. I dunno if that includes the daylight savings, but it would seem so. Or else it assumes that the certain dats are the changeover points, and those are fixed in ROM. If that's the case then there will be a lot of complaining consumers. Late for work, early for appointments, etc. :o(

And i have seen a lot of clocks in schools that are settable by some kind of power-line scheme; that trick i think has been around for over

AFAIK the US already has nearly 7 months of DST. How can extending it be a good idea? Changing DST to be 2 hours (or 1:30? or 1:42?), or even better in multiple steps (which need different start dates depending of latitude) would be a better idea.

Or, for that matter, a change in standard working hours (start earlier) or a general time offset shift.

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com...

That's a point. I can not get that to work on my VCR. I suspect that the cable system is using every piece of BW it can including wherever that time signal is - but I really don't know. I'm not sure how often it would update itself if it did work. Old VCRs did not have that but I think most newer ones do.

Bill

I have a couple of largish dogs that are constant companions. Being retired, I am free to adjust my hours as I please. Shadow, my Black Lab, lives on Sun Time and imposes that on Bear and I. Bear & I are inclined to be inclined to sleep in. Shadow believes in rising at daybreak and taking naps later. It took awhile for her to train me, but I have come to believe her plan really is best! Until technology catches up with nature DST is the second best solution.

I have noticed that Cell phones have made my wrist watch redundant. I am about ready to quit wearing the watch.

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More like about 50 years. Don't forget that IBM used to be in the time clock biz before they got into EAMs and Hollerith cards.

Looks to me like the hour hand is latched to the second hand somehow.

The original old timer clocks used a thyratron, I think it was a 5696 toob. The newer ones used a UJT or thyristor. They both had a solenoid that was pulled in by the tone on the AC line.

The guys in maintenance rolled up a dumpster to the wall, and went up in the storage 'attic' area above and tossed dozens of those Simplex clocks into the dumpster. Talk about time flying! ;-)

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That's nonsense. If you start doing fractional hours, then it's an outright bitch to keep track of UTC and other things that depend on it. Pretty soon most of the processing power in the GPS units would be devoted to keeping track of what time it is in what area of the country. :-(

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Where i live, in a major metro area, many people and biz's have modified their working hours to make it easier for the workers to get to and from work during 'rush hours'. I drive over the freeway overpass at 7AM and see all those vehicles bumper-to-bumper, waiting on the freeway for traffic to start up, and I just smile and say thank dog I'm not living out there in the boonies and have to take the freeway!

Better and simpler would be to just go to a single time, UTC, everywhere. No more time zones. If NASA and the other space agencies in other countries expect to go 'out there' in the final frontier, where there is no day or night, then they should start planning on getting everyone accustomed to that idea long before the ships leave for the moon or Mars or wherever. Even for the space station, there's a sunrise and sunset every 90 minutes or so.

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AFAIK, the cable companies demodulate the video, and then remodulate it back onto a new carrier when they send it out over cable. This might be to allow them to change the carrier freq a bit to minimize spurious intermod products.

Not all of the PBS stations provide the time signal. No one around here can get a VCR to set on the only PBS station, which is from Gainsville.

I just found this online:

The time signal is derived from the station's master time code generation system, which is locked to the GPS satellite time system. The time signal is injected into VBI line 21 field 2 of the analog television signal transmission. The signal is then distributed over-the-air, or on cable systems carrying the station. The time signal can be detected and used by newer model VCRs and televisions.

So, it appears to be using one of the VBI lines to send the data. I looked into using that line for data transmission between multiple studios and transmitter sites at a TV station around 1990. Low data rates were fairly simple, but I needed a couple 9600 baud channels so the project was shot down.

I will have to see if I can dig out my HP video Waveform monitor to look at line 21 to see if there is anything there.

Until a couple years from now when the cell phone battery holds only enough charge to keep it running for a day or two. Then you will return to your 'backup' watch when the cell phone shuts off with that 'BEEP-BEEP' right about the time you need it. And the watch can have some other capabilities too, such as memos, appointments, games, etc, so it's not all that useless.

One thing I noticed with several of my cow-orkers, especially women. They put their cell phone down, and I call their phone and it's nowhere near where they are. It's a lot easier to lose a cell phone, and people seldom lose their watch, usually only when they take it off in the washroom. I keep my cell phone in a belt pouch, so it's never far away - and seldom gets misplaced.

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