Modeling Hysteresis

Jul 18, 2012 11 Replies
T

Anyone have any pointers to mathematical models that they like which model hysteresis phenomena? Any hysteresis phenomena?



I'm feeling kind of constrained by NDA at the moment, but all of the hysteresis behaviors that I know of (gear backlash, magnetic, stress in piezoelectric crystals) seem to share some common behaviors, so just about _any_ model that's mathematically tractable would be helpful.



I also know that I've seen pictures out there in internet-land of the de- Gaussing process plotted on a B-H curve that showed that multiple small hysteresis cycles tend (at least in some magnetic materials) to relax the stored energy due to hysteresis -- I want to run that by my customer and ask them if it happens in their material.



Thankee in advance.


My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook. Why am I not happy that they have found common ground? Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software http://www.wescottdesign.com
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J

If you find one that doesn't cause convergence issues in a simulator, let me know. I'd like a general purpose hysteresis model myself.

Magnetic hysteresis adds the modeling difficulty of being variable with starting point :-(

...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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V

Modern books on electric machines abound of magnetic hysteresis models. The degree of sophistication could be different; taking into account frequency, temperature, second order effects, etc.

What do you really want?

VLV

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T

Anything on the web?

"I'm feeling kind of constrained by NDA at the moment" -- so I can't really say. But good hysteresis treatments in general would give me ideas.

My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook. Why am I not happy that they have found common ground? Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software http://www.wescottdesign.com
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J

I surfed on "hysteresis mathematical model -IEEE" and got a few interesting papers. Unless you're dealing with fixed hysteresis you're stuck with some kind of memory function... ick :-( ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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n

ttdesign.com

Hi Tim, This is pretty much a half baked idea. But I'm thinking about comparator hysterisis, and wondering if you could make some piece wise digital model? I'm not sure how to wire up a string (or ladder) of comparators to do what you want. But maybe this can spark some other ideas.

George H.

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T

If you feel that your hysteresis models aren't challenging the simulator enough, try modeling friction.

The only time I've ever gotten Matlab to actually crash (rather than hanging) was trying to simulate friction.

My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook. Why am I not happy that they have found common ground? Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software http://www.wescottdesign.com
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S

This has Stribeck, viscous and coulomb friction:-

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Note they avoid the discontinuity..

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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ttdesign.com

back in the netlist entry mode for PSpice I modeled a simple mechanical system complete with friction AND backlash. Made for some very intersting plots of response. Just started into adding stiction but quit due to actual work requirements. As in had to go back to productive work to make money.

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ttdesign.com

The Jiles-Atherton model in PSpice has hysteresis. The MicroSim PSpice used to plot the BH curve straight, so it was somewhat easy to adjust to whatever you needed.

Depending on starting point you got a lot of different responses, but thatis the definition of hysteresis. That today is based upon a bit of history, so where you start SHOULD affect the response.

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B

The John Chan model of magnetic hysterisis built into LTSpice seems to work, and it's easy enough to extract the fitting parameters from the ferrite manufacturers' data sheets.

The LTSpice help file credits it to "John Chan et la. in IEEE Transactions On Computer-Aided Design, Vol. 10. No. 4, April 1991 but extended with the methods in United States Patent 7,502,723".

Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
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B

There is a perfectly general mathematical model development here with some nice Java Applets:

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Dunno how useful it is...

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