LTspice, a great program, but that UI! - Page 5

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Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:33:47 -0000, "Kevin Aylward"

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Purchasing departments buy what engineers put on the BOM. If the part
is sole-source, they have no choice.

In most cases, an engineer can even declare an LM317 to be
sole-source. Much less an LTC2242.

My purchasing dept is not allowed to overrule an engineering decision
and buy whatever they want. Heaven help companies where they are.

I know lots of engineers who pull a part off the LT Spice parts menu,
sim their circuit, and design in the LTC part.

LTC just sold to ADI for $12 billion, about 10x annual sales. That's
pretty good.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
"John Larkin"  wrote in message  

On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:33:47 -0000, "Kevin Aylward"

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Let me clarify,

For engineers, its, does the part meet the performance required, at a cost  
the company is willing to pay, with an acceptable lead time.

If an engineer does not design in parts based on that basis, he is not an  
engineer.

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That is pretty good for LT. For product designers, its bad news.

Kevin Aylward
snipped-for-privacy@kevinaylward.co.uk
www.kevinaylward.co.uk  


Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 17:17:58 -0000, "Kevin Aylward"

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I get to decide what the company is willing to pay, so that simplifies
the process some.  

But not many purchasing departments are going to challenge an engineer
on his design choices.

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We seem to have different definitions of "engineer."

Part of what I do is amuse myself and learn things. Sometimes I do
things new ways, or use new parts, for other reasons than piece price.




--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 07:36:20 -0700, John Larkin

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Though they try...  (they're trying to tell us that we can't use a
particular capacitor).
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My PPoE allowed purchasing to buy resistors from "anyone" but
capacitor substitutions, had the be cleared by engineering.  WHere I
am now, no substutions aren't allowed without really expensive
testing.  
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Thought it was a mere $8B.

Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:33:47 -0000, "Kevin Aylward"

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Nonsense.  They sell parts because they've made it easy for customers
to design their parts in.

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It's a lot more than advertising.  I understand that you're jealous of
Mike's rock star status but do try to keep it reasonable.  ;-)
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Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!

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Nonsense. It is hardly any more work for a competent engineer to go and get  
a model from  a competitor, and *also* simulate it LTSpice.

Sure, it has *some* value, to include LT models directly, but not a lot, imo

To wit, LTSpice  does not guarantee that it will be uses just for LT parts.  
I wajor, that of the 3,000,00 downloads, only a low % actually use it to buy  
LT parts, and buy other vendors parts instead. Most of those, probably  
decide to go into banking once they finish their B.S. E.E. anyway. That's  
the bit many seem to be missing here.


So, ones needs to know, how many lazy, incompetent, drunk... engineers there  
are that won't do their job and use LTSpice to check out for an optimum  
part, and not be bribed by freebees.

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In this world of 7 billion people, Mike is a big a nobody as anyone of us.

Interestingly I just tried in Google:

"spice" "kevin aylward" 4,180 hits

"spice" "mike engelhart" 1080 hits

:-)

And no, the only rock star in this NG, is the one in the purple shirt  
playing the blue guitar with cream fingerboard...

http://www.rosierox.com/photos_the_earl_of_derby_cambridge.htm


-- Kevin Aylward
http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html


Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 20:28:57 -0000, "Kevin Aylward"

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I don't drink much. A small beer, or maybe a rum+coke, two or three
times a week.


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Super Spice   53,000,000 hits, but not about circuit simulators.

LT Spice         747,000 hits, but on topic.



--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
"John Larkin"  wrote in message  



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The point was about who was the biggest rock star,  Mike or Me, not Spice.  
The spice bit was just a filter to avoid counting that Newfoundland  
minister...

I wasn't aware mike played guitar at all, if he does, he's probably shit :-)

-- Kevin Aylward
http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html


Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 20:28:57 -0000, "Kevin Aylward"


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Therein lies the rub... every frickin' manufacturer is heading toward
encrypted models that only run on their own version of simulator, or,
like Microchip, have PhD monkeys rolling out models using tables or IF
statements that hardly ever converge.
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:05:35 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

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They probably have the notion that they'll lock you into using only their  
parts.

For me, it's more that they drive me away from using their parts, but  
hey, I'm a known weirdo.

--  

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On 03/14/2017 05:10 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
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The LT switcher models are very good, in my limited experience. Mike
says that that's because they're real transistor-level models and so
have to be encrypted.

(I try to use LM2594s for everything, myself.  No modelling required.) ;)

SPICE IC models are sufficiently crappy that if I'm relying on them for
anything delicate I have to breadboard anyway.  Discrete circuitry is
the only place I'm prepared to actually trust it at all.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--  
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
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Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On 3/14/2017 4:28 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote:
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It wouldn't be if they didn't worry about the competition and bring out  
their own spice with slightly incompatible models.


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I'm raising my hand...

--  

Rick C

Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
"John Larkin"  wrote in message  

On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 20:15:18 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote:

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And just what would you expect them to say about LTSpice?

LTSpice, is essentially, advertising. Its not easy to work out the effect of  
advertisement on profits, however, one can try different campaigns over time  
to see if there is any correlation.

Without supplying LTSpice for a time, then cutting it off over several  
periods, I don't see how its possible to validly quantify any value to it  
all, although I agree that LTSPice has some value.


"probably sold gigabucks of parts", is just a fantasy claim.


I do remember when Bruce Springteen's "Born In The USA" album came out, it  
apparently boosted Levi's jean sales


-- Kevin Aylward
http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html


Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On 03/12/2017 02:09 PM, John Larkin wrote:
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I just set the keyboard shortcut for 'run' to F5, which is familiar from  
various C++ IDEs such as Visual Studio.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--  
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
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Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward"

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I think most people who have used, and swear by LTspice have never
used, or even been exposed to, a professional simulation tool.
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
"Jim Thompson"  wrote in message  

On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:46:53 -0000, "Kevin Aylward"

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I agree. Or actually design ICs that have to work when sold in the millions  
per month range.

The reality, is that of the 3,000,000 downloads, the bulk are used by  
students and amateurs. By that I mean this.

The bulk of all electronics is IC electronics. That is, billions and  
billions of 10,000s of different products,  sold every year are integrated  
circuits. The number of products with no ICs, is pretty much in the noise.  
This ranges from TVs, medical scanners, mobile phones, you name it,  it is  
IC based.

None of these designs (except maybe Linear Tech :-) ) are taped out using  
LTSpice. Its all professional tools, costing real money. Yeah, I am making a  
statement without actually have provable numbers, but maybe the one that  
does, don't post here to contradict me.



-- Kevin Aylward
http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html


Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:39:18 -0000, "Kevin Aylward"

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[snip]
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I really doubt the Linear Tech uses LTspice for design, except,
perhaps, an in-house version as the engine immersed into a Cadence
environment.
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:39:18 -0000, "Kevin Aylward"

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I don't design ICs, I buy them. I design and sell boards. LT Spice is
a great tool for helping me do that.



--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
On 3/12/2017 4:16 PM, John Larkin wrote:
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I agree, John. I never simulate my entire design, just parts of it to  
answer my immediate questions. Then I go to the bench.

I bought SuperSpice some years ago and found it almost impossible to use  
even with Kevin's help. That is why I now use LTSpice. It is friendly  
and just works. By digging a little, its usefulness can be greatly  
increased. Also, it seems to be used by many respected professional  
engineers on this group.




Re: LTspice, a great program, but that UI!
wrote:

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Right. I only sim or breadboard little snippets of circuit that I have
any doubt about; for most designs, that is none. The best prototype is
the first production unit.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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