Let's Take A Vote...

Jul 23, 2010 282 Replies

Exactly. That's the difference between the "charge is conserved" physics perspective, and the way EEs work. The physics argument can be made that a small 1F supercap, with 1 volt across its terminals, that is floating 10 volts above ground, has a charge of around 10 pC, namely 10 volts times its capacitance to the universe.

EEs would prefer to think of that cap as having a charge of 1C, namely

1F*1V. Technically I suppose we should say something like "the capacitor sustains an internal charge separation of 1C" but we just say it's charged to 1C, or "holds a charge" of 1C. We can pump that sort of charge into and out of caps and do the accounting correctly.

The way that electronic designers (and the authors of mosfet data sheets) talk is the latter; we say "charge" instead of "charge saparation" because it's easier. We say "electrostatic charge" in the rare cases when the first convention is intended.

Spice, of course, won't allow electrostatic charge to be considered. Without a path to ground, it will throw up its figurative hands and declare a singular matrix.

The EE sort of charge is obviously conserved only in some special cases. All I ever said was that such cases exist (with examples) and that circuit designers should be careful about generally depending on "conservation of charge" when they do math. If they do math. If all they ever do is drive Spice and fiddle, no problem.

John

Where can I buy 0.33 uF surface-mount metal spheres? Are they expensive? I'd need ROHS, of course, on reels. [1]

John

[1] extra credit: how big would they be?

In Nymbecile's case, yes it does. :-)

That's just a silly diversionary tactic; measuring a force doesn't make you the force.

No, But you are. ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Spice is like a sports car... Only as good as the person behind the wheel.

Were you ever taught dimensional analysis?

Obviously not. Give it a try:

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The basic concept is that you can test all sorts of relationships for plausibility by reducing their SI units. If the units don't agree, the things can't be equal. Newtons aren't coulombs, so charge can't be force. It's that simple.

They taught us this our first freshman semister in EE school, in a course called "Engineering Design Analysis" which was taught in a small classroom by the Dean of Engineering, just to get us started on the right track. It's been a great friend ever since.

John

You did:

John

Second terminal optional?!

But then, we sorta cater to 'monopole' charge when using human body model's charge for anti-static measures.

Grant.

The human body model tester has a ground terminal. ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Spice is like a sports car... Only as good as the person behind the wheel.

We do have a few parts in our PADS library that have only one pin.

John

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You are an absolute idiot, Johnny. IF we were talking about MECHANICAL force,then yes, the unit might be described in Newtons. SINCE we are talking about electronic principals (you do know what the word 'principal' means, right?), then the FORCE being mentioned would OBVIOUSLY be EMF or abvolts. Grow up, you idiot.

I like your responses to lunacy being in the form of song references. That is pretty cool and fun to try to track the "What do you mean by that?" function. tee hee hee :-)

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err principle. Duh.

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The Coulomb is a measure of flow idiot. Not flow rate, but flow amount. The volt is 'our' measure of force in this realm of 'charge' we discuss here, idiot, and has a direct relationship to the RATE at which those coulombs get to flow.

So, are you now claiming to be "not one of us"? That figures as well.

Force is measured in newtons. Look it up.

Now we have claims that coulombs, volts, and abvolts are all measures of force. Any other contributions? Can you measure force in milliseconds, or in henries? Do any units mean anything at all?

John

I'm an electronics design engineer. I have no idea what you and your pals are.

I use SI units; what do your buddies work in?

John

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Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal ElectroOptical Innovations 55 Orchard Rd Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net

Here we go again. It just depends on what your definition of "electromotive force" is :-) ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Spice is like a sports car... Only as good as the person behind the wheel.

Of course. Child molestation exists in Catholic land ONLY if you get caught. ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Help Stamp Out Racism... Recycle Congress In 2010

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