LCD cleaning

Hi,

I've always advocated "100 proof"[1] alcohol and a microfiber rag to clean LCD monitors. Is there a commercial product (that doesn't have silly additives, dyes, etc.) that I can recommend to a friend for the same purpose (albeit much more expensive)?

Thx,

--don

[1] Of course, you *make* this from distilled water and isopropyl alcohol -- save the "good stuff" for drinking! :>
Reply to
Don Y
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I use the Monster LCD cleaning kit, blue dye maybe? but it does have a microfiber rag with it. I perfer the matte finish displays so I dont see the streaks.

Cheers

Reply to
Martin Riddle

Sigh. Everyone has their own favorite concoction.

I use 409 "Glass and Surface" cleaner and a paper towel. That removes the grease, dust, dirt, filth, fingerprints, and food stains from the screen. However, it also leaves visible streaks on the glass. To remove those, I wipe lightly with a *DRY* microfiber rag.

I also use 409 "All Purpose Cleaner" for glass monitors. It's not recommended for glass: but if I work fast and don't let it puddle, it works well enough.

Some pundits recommend a tiny amount of liquid soap and water: That works, but one still has to wipe off the streaks with a microfiber rag.

Others believe that white vinegar and water is the magic elixir: If you don't mind the smell, vinegar should also work.

The reason I don't use alcohol has nothing to do with cleaning the glass screen. That part works just fine. The problem is that the alcohol attacks the stickers and keycap silk screening on laptops. Most are immune but I've managed to destroy a few keyboards and stickers with alcohol. I've found that even the solvent residue left on my fingers after cleaning the screen can cause problems. Ammonia has similar problems so that should also be used carefully. I also have a suspicion that the de-vulcanization of the rubberized paint used on laptops is initiated by ammonia, but haven't bothered to setup a controlled experiment. Best to avoid alcohol and ammonia cleaners.

According to numerous experts, the danger is that the solvent of choice might remove, damage, or streak the anti-reflective coating on the screen. So, I took several old laptop screens and tested the theory. If there was an anti-reflective coating (usually magnesium fluoride), none of the basic cleaning chemicals I've already mentioned did any damage. I did try some real TSP (tri sodium phosphate made from soda ash and phosphoric acid), which etched and trashed the glass. Looks like nitric acid will attack magnesium fluoride. In many matt LCD monitors, there is no coating. Instead, they use a thin plastic film as in:

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 18:44:07 -0700, Don Y Gave us:

The instant hand cleaner. A variety that has no lotion in it (hard to find) Works well, because it has a different kind of alcohol than IPA in it.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

Isopropyl alcohol generally has oil added ("rubbing" alcohol).

I use denatured alcohol straight or water diluted as my cleaning solution.

(You can buy denatured alcohol in the paint department of most hardware stores.) ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

What does it have listed for ingredients?

Reply to
Don Y

I recommend Everclear (190 proof) available at the liquor store. Very few impurities.

Reply to
John S

Yeah, I've seen WD40, mineral spirits, acetone, etc. OTOH, when someone has put packing tape *on* the screen... or, silly little stickers...

Hmmm... the list of ingredients seems to include abrasives. I guess for glass it would be OK. Not sure how well that would fare on the flimsy "plastic film" coatings on many LCD monitors (?)

Problem with soap is it leaves a residue.

Yeah, a friend suggested that. But, it's also "not over the counter" (i.e., would need to be "mixed" prior to use)

Not looking at laptop screens but, rather, LCD monitors.

Yes. Hence no Windex.

I think it is a matter of continued use that causes the problem. You'd probably never see it from incremental use. But, compare one that had been cleaned X times against one that hadn't...

Ha! I use that to clean the roof prior to painting it. That stuff will take your *fingerprints* off (i.e., off your *fingers*!)

Yes. There is also the risk of "scrubbing" to remove a persistent stain that could mechanically damage the screen.

Reply to
Don Y

Really? The label on the bottle I have (91%) lists "isopropyl alcohol" as the "active ingredient" and "water" as the "inactive ingredient". Do labeling laws allow "other ingredients" to NOT be listed? (i.e., if less than X%)

That may be a safer bet. Thanks!

Reply to
Don Y

Yes, I use it for making "extracts" (e.g., for baking flavorings). It's far more expensive than isopropyl alcohol; not keen on using that to clean screens! :-/

Reply to
Don Y

De-ionized water and proprietary polymers. It's actually clear, the bottle is blue.

Cheers

Reply to
Martin Riddle

I can usually clean my screen by first using a soft brush to remove the dust and then the microfiber wipe with no chemicals applied. You must have a difficult environment if you need a solvent.

Reply to
John S

I beg to differ. If there were any oil, the stuff would leave some oil residue when evaporated. The common description of the ingredients for rubbing alcohol offer no mention of any oils. Some include perfume oils and colorants, but those are always identified on the label:

Diluted water? Well, ok.

Drug store denatured alcohol is mostly ethanol with a little methyl alcohol added to make it unsuitable for making booze.

Hardware store denatured alcohol is very different. I'm looking at a rusty old can of Ace "Pure Denatured Alcohol" #11342: Note the changes formulation over the years:

It contains: Ethanol (the good stuff) Methanol (the stuff you don't want to drink) Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (Hexone solvent) Ethyl Acetate (a solvent) Rubber Solvent (naphtha solvent) Water In other words, it's a mix of various solvents, some which are probably going to do bad things to a plastic anti-glare film on the LCD display.

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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

$26/liter for Everclear. A can of hardware store denatured alcohol is about $6/liter. Drugstore 91% alcohol is about $4/liter. This is not a difficult decision.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I see an average of 5 different laptops per week. You will be amazed at how filthy they can be in a fairly short time. The worst are the automotive repair shop laptops (used for running diagnostics), that are usually covered with a thick layer of grease and grime. Then, there are the smokers, where the LCD monitor screen contains a vapor deposited layer of tar and whatever else they put in cancer sticks these days. The road warrior likes to sip coffee while checking his email at Starbucks, so the screen is coated with food and beverage spatterings. The home economist often likes to use the laptop on the kitchen counter, with predictable results. I think the worst is the machine shop, where the LCD display and all the plastic case parts, were encrusted with hot metal chips, that had melted their way into the plastic and become permanent. I almost forgot the customer that wanted me to "adjust" her computer and then informed me after I was done that the yellow goo on the bottom of the screen was actually cat urine. Yes, some chemicals are usually required.

Incidentally, I make it habit of cleaning the case and screen of everything that goes through the shop. Nobody believes that their machine has been repaired unless it also looks repaired.

Topic drift: I have a pet peeve about laptops that are designed to be difficult to clean. Todays laptops are designed to suck up all the loose debris from the table, lap, or bed where they're used. That would not be a problem if the debris when through the heat pipe heat exchanger fins and out the back. Most often, they get stuck between the fan and fins. These are photos of what I usually find AFTER I use a 60 psi air hose to try and blow out the lint: It was about 50% clogged and overheating. Notice that I had to tear apart the laptop in order to clean out the fan and fins. This is what a properly designed laptop looks like: Notice the easy access to the fan and fins without having to tear apart the machine. Yes, there's more to cleaning than just wiping the screen.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I don't think so? The new and mostly useless SDS replacement for MSDS does not list any ingredients or abrasives: Where did you find that there were abrasives? The spray bottle would need to shaken in order to prevent the abrasive particles from precipitating to the bottom of the spray bottle. That's not recommended or done. I just evaporated some 409 on a microscope slide. No solid residue found.

Yep. However, the reason adding dish washing liquid is not for the soap. It's for reducing the surface tension of the liquid, which reduces the tendency to produce water spots. A clue is that the article mumbles to only use a drop or two, which would be grossly inadequate for soap, but just fine for a surfactant. You can do as well with a few drops of Kodak Photo-Flo:

Make up a gallon of your favored elixir and ship it to him. It should last many years if he doesn't spill it. He's unlikely to need another gallon in his lifetime, so I don't see any reason to insist on commercial availability.

Same thing. Matt displays are risky because of the plastic coating. Glossy displays are not a problem unless you use something that etches glass.

There are many home made window cleaner formulas on the internet that do not use ammonia. I did a quick survey and found that most use alcohol, vinegar, or both as the active ingredient.

Most users are thoroughly confused as to what to use to clean their display. When it arrives on my bench, I'm often the first and last person to ever clean the screen. This is one case where the industry FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) is beneficial. I have a collection of cheap 1" paint brushes in the office. Anyone with a dust problem gets handed one with instruction to use it LIGHTLY to remove the dust. The solvents are for grease and ossified food, that cannot be removed with a brush.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Get head out of butt... "water-diluted".

You live in Californica... here, in AZ, it only has Methanol added to it to keep you from drinking it and avoiding the "spirits" tax ;-) ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:39:23 -0700, Jeff Liebermann Gave us:

Surgeon's scrub foam dispenser.

The evaporating type 'instant' hand wash stuff is great too. The trick is finding the latter free of emollient additives.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

NumeroUno:

it is mostly denatured ethanol, might as well use that

-Lasse

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

For a moment, I was beginning to suspect that you might be into homeopathy, where everything is diluted with alcohol or water:

Ace Hardware is a national retail cooperative and has 4,600 locations. Presumably, they don't supply special formulations for each state. However, as I previously mumbled, the Ace Hardware formulation seems to have changed over the years.

Doesn't one have to be dead in order to tax their spirit? Taxing the dead seems rather non-productive.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

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