Inverse Marx generator

If you conserve energy, then you must have

C1*V1^2 = C2*V2^2

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen           adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net
Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form.

Where it always goes.

So, Archie....how's that Exorcism coming along? Able to control your involuntary obscenities yet? Probably not. Keep trying. Jesus Loves YOU!

============================================ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ?You fool!? will be liable to the hell of fire.

Matthew 5:22

============================================

father mike

the

charge

to

and

By analogy, consider a billiard ball striking another (at rest) ball 1/4 diameter away from the line of centroid motion (glancing blow / cut). Does energy and momentum get conserved? Show the math.

Thanks Fred,

I would have thought that as the Capacitor closes (eg C increases ) the Voltage decreases, but net Charge remains the same..

Sort of like going from High Impedance to Low Impedance. It's trading Voltage for Current, which is what we want.

I agree the attraction between the plates will drive the Cap like a motor. Is this good or bad?

..................... Zim

I CAN do the math! Can others here? Why do you think I was dumping on Larkin?

First Law of Thermodynamics: You always lose :-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in
       politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.

A pair of billiard balls colliding, even at perfect tangency, does not do so without losses.

In the glancing blow, the coefficient of friction of the ball media comes into play as does the coefficient of friction of the ball-to-cloth interface.

These two factors mean that there will not be a 100% transfer of energy from one ball to the other without some loss.

Otherwise, 'English' would not work. Nor would 'Throw'. Two very important weapons in the billiard artist's arsenal. Bank shots would also have several issues.

Also, using a 'term' like "a quarter ball" can be ambiguously interpreted.

Just give the number of degrees in the future.

Question/poser for you all:

Can a 'cut shot' be made that is less than 90° with these friction effects in place?

The answer is yes, but do you know how or why to get there?

Right. If you dump all the energy from one charged cap into another, discharged, cap of a different value, and do it efficiently, charge is not conserved.

John

Yes, that's what would happen.

However, the same charge at a lower voltage represents less energy. The energy lost has to go somewhere. In this case it will go into the rotating system.

Take a simpler example: two parallel plates moved closer, or separated. Separation will require work to be done on the plates to overcome attraction. Moving closer, the plates will do work themselves. Energy will be conserved.

The concept of impedance doesn't really apply here.

It's bad, since the object of the exercise is to convert energy at a high voltage to energy at a lower voltage. We want to finish with the joules that we started with, neglecting losses.

--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence 
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
                                       (Richard Feynman)

Both conditions are only satisfied when C1=C2

--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence 
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
                                       (Richard Feynman)

Billiard balls roll, which means that at the instant of contact there is a transverse scraping, like a clutch engaging, which wastes more energy than a classic elastic sphere conservation-of-momentum physics problem. The angular momentum transfer is a lot like transferring charge between two capacitors by connecting them with a resistor, but worse because of the felt.

Air hockey is closer to classic elastic collision.

John

John says, "...charge is not conserved."

Newbies are invited to Google on "conservation of charge".

(AND run the math problem I previously posted.)

John is so full of it I'd bet his eyes are brown ;-)

Unfortunately, Adrian Jansen mis-states the results as well :-( ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in
       politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.

[snip]

My MIT freshman physics lab had air-supported pucks with periodic sparking onto teledeltos paper to investigate collisions, momentum and energy. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in
       politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.

Do my math problem. ...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at

| 1962 | Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.

Some people believe that charge is always conserved, and some people believe that energy is always conserved.

Simple thought experiments can resolve the dilemma.

John

I haven't been following this thread, but I have a comment.

The operative phrase must be, "and do it efficiently."

This is easy to do, with a dc-dc converter for example, or a mosfet switch and an inductor. In these cases it's easy to manipulate E1 and E2, C1*V1^2 = C2*V2^2. Forget about charge.

--
 Thanks,
    - Win

"Forget about charge."???

I guess it depends on your definition of "depends" :-(

We've gone from "dumping" to running a switcher.

Got one at 100%? Power-Out == Power-In ?? ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in
       politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.

Both are conserved. Just some of "it" goes into places you didn't expect :-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
Obama: A reincarnation of Nixon, narcissistically posing in
       politically-correct black-face, but with fewer scruples.

It appears that we agree on something today.

The "clutching" you refer to is due to the inertia of the spin on the rolling ball imparting a torqueing force to the ball it makes contact with in the fraction of a second that the "less than 100% elastic collision" takes to occur, and is, of course 100% related to the coefficient of friction between the two colliding masses.

"Air Hockey" is actually about as close as one can get to modeling the ideal circumstance of a pure elastic collision with zero losses here on this globe's surface (table MUST be 100% level). Ill bet that it would be cool to experiment with different "puck" materials. The puck must also have very, VERY 'true' side faces. That is to say... they must be square to the puck faces.

I am an advanced Masse' 'applicator' in billiards. I can even compress a ball against a rail nose so hard that it compresses it shape into it before rebounding. This allows for a lot more manipulation of the energy one places into the rubber rail.

If I use "draw" on the cue ball, it imparts "follow" on the object ball, which then causes it to 'loft' a bit upon compression of the rail. This makes the rebound event occur at a plane other than that of the table bed (i.e. 1,2, 3, or 4 degrees a.o.a.)

I can bank a ball "cross-side" 100% in the air, after the rail contact is made, if I 'loft' it in such a manner. I can do it full table length as well, but it takes a lot more 'effect' imparted to it to perform. One actually has to bear down on the ball such that it takes little hops on its way down to the end rail. Otherwise a lot of the applied English gets removed by the cloth and the shot fails. It is usually about two or three little bounces that psuedo-float the ball down the table.