In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem

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..."the birds that do wash up are emaciated, with their breast bones showing, little fat on their bodies, and nothing in their stomach or intestines."

https://www.audubon.org/news/in-alaska-starving-seabirds-and-empty-colonies-signal-broken-ecosystem

Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Saturday, September 29, 2018 at 12:18:27 AM UTC+10, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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The Arctic environment is warming up several times faster than the earth as whole.

It looks as if at least one ecological niche has vanished. Something like this happens at the end of every ice age, and at the start of every new one.

The ecosystem is changing, as has frequently done through the planet's history.

It isn't broken, merely changing. The changes are probably going to inconvenience us too, but if we pay attention and react sensibly - which doesn't seem to be happening yet - we should be okay.

Places without much spare agricultural capacity may lose quite a bit of population to starvation if we don't get our act together soon, but the meat-eating first world has quite a lot of room to adapt.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
:
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il.com wrote:
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owing, little fat on their bodies, and nothing in their stomach or intestin
es."
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nies-signal-broken-ecosystem
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as whole.
 this happens at the end of every ice age, and at the start of every new on
e.

The difference with this one is the change is occurring at least 100x faste
r than in the past.

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story.
venience us too, but if we pay attention and react sensibly - which doesn't
 seem to be happening yet - we should be okay.

I'm starting to suspect it's global conspiracy to depopulate most of the pl
anet.


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opulation to starvation if we don't get our act together soon, but the meat
-eating first world has quite a lot of room to adapt.


A Stanford biochem professor has developed a new food technology to replace
 meat products. He claims that over 90% of land used by man, for any purpos
e, is consumed growing feed for animal production. Seems he's really taking
 his time with acceptance testing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_Foods


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Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Saturday, September 29, 2018 at 2:58:00 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fred...@gmail.
com wrote:
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te:
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mail.com wrote:
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showing, little fat on their bodies, and nothing in their stomach or intest
ines."
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lonies-signal-broken-ecosystem
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h as whole.
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ke this happens at the end of every ice age, and at the start of every new  
one.
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ter than in the past.

Almost true.  

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Thermal_Maximum

"However, the amount of released carbon, according to a recent study, sugge
st a modest 0.2 gigatonnes per year (at peaks 0.58 gigatonnes); humans toda
y add about 10 gigatonnes per year."

So we are changing the climate fifty times faster than nature did back then
.  

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history.
onvenience us too, but if we pay attention and react sensibly - which doesn
't seem to be happening yet - we should be okay.
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planet.

The people who conspiring to keep it changing rapidly - pretty much the peo
ple who get money out of extacting fossil carbon and selling it as fuel - m
ostly don't live in places that would face a population crash if the local  
agriculture stopped working as it had in the (cooler) past.

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 population to starvation if we don't get our act together soon, but the me
at-eating first world has quite a lot of room to adapt.  
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ce meat products. He claims that over 90% of land used by man, for any purp
ose, is consumed growing feed for animal production. Seems he's really taki
ng his time with acceptance testing.
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The grazing lobby has an interest in keeping their income stream flowing.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
:
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l.com wrote:
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rote:
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@gmail.com wrote:
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s showing, little fat on their bodies, and nothing in their stomach or inte
stines."
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colonies-signal-broken-ecosystem
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rth as whole.
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like this happens at the end of every ice age, and at the start of every ne
w one.
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aster than in the past.
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gest a modest 0.2 gigatonnes per year (at peaks 0.58 gigatonnes); humans to
day add about 10 gigatonnes per year."
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en.  
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s history.
nconvenience us too, but if we pay attention and react sensibly - which doe
sn't seem to be happening yet - we should be okay.
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e planet.
eople who get money out of extacting fossil carbon and selling it as fuel -
 mostly don't live in places that would face a population crash if the loca
l agriculture stopped working as it had in the (cooler) past.
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of population to starvation if we don't get our act together soon, but the  
meat-eating first world has quite a lot of room to adapt.  
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lace meat products. He claims that over 90% of land used by man, for any pu
rpose, is consumed growing feed for animal production. Seems he's really ta
king his time with acceptance testing.
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Some of their simple minded circular reasoning for the masses: https://qz.c
om/1343690/why-cattle-are-the-key-to-unlocking-the-energy-of-human-inedible
-plants/

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Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:57:55 -0700 (PDT),
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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It would appear that he already has a large number of competitors for
meat substitutes:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_meat_substitutes
I've tried some of these and find them rather dull and boring.  What's
missing is the blood (juices).  I don't care if it's real or fake
blood, but please hold the garlic:
<https://res.cloudinary.com/jerrick/image/upload/f_auto,fl_progressive,q_auto,c_fit,w_768/nodhimn266kfxpgqmaep

--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Saturday, September 29, 2018 at 4:31:05 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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auto,c_fit,w_768/nodhimn266kfxpgqmaep>

That's what his heme molecule is all about, it substitutes for the blood ve
ry well. They just got FDA approval of its safety only recently, not becaus
e FDA took so long, but because they waited so long to apply.

"Heme is an iron-containing molecule that occurs naturally in every single  
plant and animal. It?s an essential molecular building block of lif
e. Heme gives your blood its ability to carry oxygen. It?s found in
 all living organisms, and it's been consumed every day?heck, every
 second?for hundreds of thousands of years..

"Heme is super abundant in animal muscle, and that's what makes a burger so
 flavorful. It's also why meat is a particularly good source of iron. The h
eme found in animal muscle is carried by a protein called myoglobin.

Plants, particularly nitrogen-fixing plants and legumes, also have heme. Th
e heme found in these plants is carried by leghemoglobin, which is closely  
related to myoglobin. Leghemoglobin in the soy plant is called soy leghemog
lobin. The heme molecule in plant-based heme is atom-for-atom identical to  
the heme molecule found in meat. It?s what makes the Impossible Bur
ger so rich and decadent."


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Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:43:37 -0700 (PDT),
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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Thanks.  I'm not sure if artificial plant blood will work for those
with a chronic nocturnal taste for blood, but it's worth a try,
especially if it's served at body temperature.  Popping an Impossible
Burger into the microwave would certainly be an improvement over
stalking prospective blood donors under cover of darkness:
<https://impossiblefoods.com/locations/
Looks like there are two prospective locations within driving
distance.

--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 12:30:40 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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te:
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,q_auto,c_fit,w_768/nodhimn266kfxpgqmaep>
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 very well. They just got FDA approval of its safety only recently, not bec
ause FDA took so long, but because they waited so long to apply.
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le plant and animal. It?s an essential molecular building block of  
life. Heme gives your blood its ability to carry oxygen. It?s found
 in all living organisms, and it's been consumed every day?heck, ev
ery second?for hundreds of thousands of years..
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 so flavorful. It's also why meat is a particularly good source of iron. Th
e heme found in animal muscle is carried by a protein called myoglobin.
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 The heme found in these plants is carried by leghemoglobin, which is close
ly related to myoglobin. Leghemoglobin in the soy plant is called soy leghe
moglobin. The heme molecule in plant-based heme is atom-for-atom identical  
to the heme molecule found in meat. It?s what makes the Impossible  
Burger so rich and decadent."
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More info

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/06/21/482322571/silicon-valley-s-
bloody-plant-burger-smells-tastes-and-sizzles-like-meat

https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/impossible-burger-draws-environmenta
lists-ire/313220/

Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On 29/09/18 22:43, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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Nonsense.


True.


True.

Clearly the author is not a cook and does not understand the processes
involved in cooking.

Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 08:04:19 +0100, Tom Gardner

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Yep.  I suspect that much of the flavor is either in the fat or
carried by the fat:
"The Science Behind Why Fat Tastes So Good"
<https://gizmodo.com/the-science-behind-why-fat-tastes-so-good-1511695998

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I sometimes cook on cast iron.  I get my daily dose of iron from the
skillet, not from meat:
"Cast Iron Pans Are a Reliable Source of Dietary Iron"
<https://vitals.lifehacker.com/cast-iron-pans-are-a-reliable-source-of-dietary-iron-1782228888
"Are cast iron pans unsafe?"
<https://examine.com/nutrition/are-cast-iron-pans-unsafe

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Possibly, but he's doing quite well doing public relations for
Impossible Foods.  Methinks the author can be forgiven if he cuts some
corners and provides some generalities instead of inundating the
reader with more accurate, but voluminous, details.



--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Saturday, September 29, 2018 at 4:31:05 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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auto,c_fit,w_768/nodhimn266kfxpgqmaep>

The whole meat substitute thing is almost as unappealing to me as meat.  It
 always bugs me when restaurants feel that rather than just preparing good  
vegetarian meals they have to use tofu in place of meat.  Yuk!  

I remember finding a pretty good frozen meal at the supermarket with chicke
n, but couldn't find what would have been a great vegetarian meal without i
t.  Everything vegie either is full of cheese, heavy cream sauce or otherwi
se junked up rather than just making them good.  Obviously the meat enthusi
asts preferences if they are not eating meat.  

Rick C.

Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On 30/09/18 06:12, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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Precisely.


Agreed, but it is getting better over here, especially if you look
in the Indian/SEAsian sections.

I'm a confirmed omnivore, but I do like the *South* Indian food.
It has a lot of flavour (esp. tamarind, coconut, vinegar) and
not very much chilli.

Gordon Ramsay (Michelin award chef and TV restaurant rescuerer),
who is scathing about veggies, did a "foodie" tour of S India
(Kerala and Tamil Nadu). It was entertaining to see him surprised
to the extent he very begrudgingly said it was delicious.

Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 12:58:00 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.co
m wrote:
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te:
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mail.com wrote:
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showing, little fat on their bodies, and nothing in their stomach or intest
ines."
Quoted text here. Click to load it
lonies-signal-broken-ecosystem
Quoted text here. Click to load it
h as whole.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ke this happens at the end of every ice age, and at the start of every new  
one.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ter than in the past.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
history.
onvenience us too, but if we pay attention and react sensibly - which doesn
't seem to be happening yet - we should be okay.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
planet.
 population to starvation if we don't get our act together soon, but the me
at-eating first world has quite a lot of room to adapt.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ce meat products. He claims that over 90% of land used by man, for any purp
ose, is consumed growing feed for animal production. Seems he's really taki
ng his time with acceptance testing.
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I guess I get that people don't want to give up the foods they love.  I use
d to like burgers and I was pretty gung-ho about chicken prepared just abou
t any way.  But I don't miss any of it at all.  The only issue I have with  
eating meatless is that in most restaurants it relegates me to a very small
 portion of the menu.  In fact, the last couple of years I have come to ful
ly appreciate just how meat centric most people's tastes are.  

Oh well, in 100 years when there is too little land and too many people for
 any significant proportion to be able to eat meat it will be like a chapte
r out of Soylent Green.  Unlike AGW, eating meat doesn't have potential to  
impact our way of living long term.  When we no longer can raise animals to
 eat, we simply won't.  

Rick C.

Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 22:05:51 -0700 (PDT),
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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"Why are veggie burgers more expensive than beef patties?"
<https://www.quora.com/Why-are-veggie-burgers-more-expensive-than-beef-patties
   "The sad reality is, you cannot feed 7 billion people  
   without a system that requires large tracts of land  
   and releases boatloads of CO2 into the atmosphere.  

   the same silly thing."

I guess the next fad will be eating bugs (entomophagy):

"U.N. Urges Eating Insects; 8 Popular Bugs to Try"
<https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130514-edible-insects-entomophagy-science-food-bugs-beetles/

I've been into occasional baked crickets and chocolate covered ants
for many years.  Good stuff once you get past the western cultural
aversion to eating bugs.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 1:59:17 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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tties>
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Do you really believe this???  The point is that it takes some large multip
lier to feed animals for us to eat compared to just growing crops to feed p
eople.  The only mitigating factor is that they feed nearly every part of t
he plant to animals while humans only eat a portion of the plants that are  
grown.  But even with that factored in there is a significant multiplier to
 grow animals to eat.  

In other words, it will take a *lot* less land, water, fertilizer and will  
produce a *lot* less CO2 and other by-products such as runoff into the wate
rways.  

I'm surprised you posted a link to such bull.  


Rick C.

Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 05:28:33 -0700 (PDT),
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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I'm not sure, but it seems possible depending on what is being
compared.  Is it calories per acre?  Does it include the 40% of food
that is tossed into the landfill?
<http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/22/40-of-u-s-food-wasted-report-says/
Are we including "novelty" foods, junk food, snacks, etc?  Does the
expense include processing, storage, refrigeration, pest control, and
government farm subsidies?
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/congresss-latest-farm-bill-sets-a-new-standard-of-ugliness/2018/07/04/75aed658-7ee4-11e8-bb6b-c1cb691f1402_story.html
I don't know how the quora author reached his conclusion, but I do
know that I swing the calculations to favor either beef or veggie
depending on which parts of the food supply and consumption chain I
include in those calculations.

I suspect that given equal calories supplied by veggies and meat, the
average consumer will prefer meat.  It's rather odd that we have a
wide selection of simulated beef products made from plant sources,
while we don't have any plant substitutes made from meat.  To the best
of my knowledge, the imitation food products are invariably meat
substitutes.  Changing the buying public from meat to veggies is going
to be painful without cosmetic reconstitution into something
resembling the meat that most everyone seems to want.  So, the cost of
switching to a veggie based diet will involve considerable expense in
making the stuff look, taste, smell, feel, and handle like meat.  I
call to your attention that veggie burgers are more expensive at the
supermarket than hamburgers as a clue.

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Fine.  It will also take a fair amount of effort, chemistry, and labor
to convert veggies into fake meat.  The longer and more complex the
conversion chain, the profit will be extracted from it.  I don't have
any numbers, but suspect the consumer prices will be similar for
processing veggies and for processing beef (both without subsidies).

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Don't be surprised.  It doesn't matter what point of view I express or
advocate, I can usually find an article, blog, or rant that supports
that position.  I post such URL's not so much to substantiate my
point, but rather to provide additional reading material for anyone
who wants more detail or wants to research the topic.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:52:07 -0400, Neon John wrote:

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Yeah, they *think* they're so sophisticated, intelligent and better than  
everyone else, but like you say, they know sweet fuck all about anything.



--  
This message may be freely reproduced without limit charge only via the  
Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols,  
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Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 8:36:38 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:
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Since Cursitor Doom is a gullible twit who believes everything he sees in the Daily Mail and hears from Russia Today, what he means is that they don't share his particular delusions.

That doesn't necessarily makes them "sophisticated, intelligent and better than  everyone else" but at least they aren't as unsophisticated, dumb and gullible as Cursitor Doom.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: In Alaska, Starving Seabirds and Empty Colonies Signal a Broken Ecosystem
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 07:18:22 -0700 (PDT),
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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It's downright ghoulish to wallow in that sort of stuff.


But the beans and the fog are better than ever.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j40wjj4jrl8kjxd/Cranberry_2018.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yxnj19yvjqmky1j/Fog_p1.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b441bf7y5rfj1kh/Fog_p2.JPG?raw=1

and people keep making cool parts:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/vishay-dale/RCP1206W50R0GEB/541-2659-2-ND/5481873



--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


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