Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

Is there an alt.english.composition newsgroup? My news server doesn't seem to carry it. I can find alt.english and alt.english.usage.

Unfortunately, this approach requires a sense of proportion. You have to say somethig that is nice, but not so nice that is sounds either ironic or sarcastic.

" I realized what an honor it is to have my poor attempts at Usenet posts share the same disk as my intellectual superiors such as the great Bill Sloman. "

There is a big gap between qualifying as your intellectual superior - which I can concede might be an honest self-assessment on your part, though I rather doubt it - and deserving the title "the great Bill Sloman" which is pure comedy.

Around here, the only regular posters who might qualify for that that sort of title are Winfield Hill, Spehro Pefany, Tony Williams, John Poplish, Tom Bruhns and Jim Thompson, and since neither Jim Thompson nor Winfield Hill would concede the other's right to that title and the other four clearly don't regard themselves as great, the title "the great" clearly has to be a sarcasm.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

I did try and read the paragraph again, but I think you've confused me.

I thought he was talking about a California Engineer (Mr Macon is not one, by the way) and he wrote that a California Engineer can have a license without a degree, a degree ......hang it, just read it for yourself at the top of the page.

You explanation using binary variables looked very impressive (however I do think this is what has confused me) so lets stick to engineers from California, the subject of this post.

How can this California Engineer have a both a license without a degree and a degree without a license? How many engineers are we talking about? Is that where the binary variable comes in, there are two engineers?

If we are suddenly talking about two engineers, well then yes, this all makes sense now and I see where I went wrong. Thank you for enlightening me.

With kind regards

Chu

It looked to me that it must be TWO Engineers, one who has a degree, and another who has a license, but not a degree. I think the demonstration was that one 'could' be an Engineer, as he had a license to practise as an Engineer, and the other 'was' an Engineer as he was qualified to be an engineer. It can't be the same individual as he would have either the degree, OR, the license, or both, but surely not be an engineer without either, perhaps an Engineer who has either a degree or a license from California could enlighten us.

I am going to take you at your word and do my best to "post interesting or helpful stuff about electronics" and to "back off on the long-winded prose." Those are Good Things to do anyway.

Based on past behavior I suspect that my best won't be good enough for you and that the flaming will continue, but I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Aparently a simple task.

I did, several times.

^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^

Really? Want to try that again? The meaning, if not the grammar, was quite clear. I used binary variables as a way of trying to translate the (obvious) meaning to other engineers (or not ;).

Read it again. Do you know what "OR* means?

Read it again and think *OR*.

There seems to be a lot of that s*it going around.

...too funny to be an engineer.

BS, as always.

Hey! I'm Great!

At something...

I'm sure of it...

If I only knew what it was... ;-)

Charlie

Actually, Bill, I think both Jim and Win aknowledge each other's design skills, they just enjoy tweaking each other over polytics to admit it...

Why would you think that having a engineering degree or an engineering license would qualify someone to expound upon a legal question?

Why would you think that one could "surely not be an engineer without either" [license or degree]?

In California an Engineer may have a license and have a degree.

In California an Engineer may have a license and have no degree.

In California an Engineer may have no license and have a degree.

In California an Engineer may have no license and have no degree.

( Hint: 11 10 01 00 )

There is no licensing requirement for being an Engineer in California.

There is no educational requirement for being an Engineer in California.

There are titles that are restricted, but "Engineer" is not one of them. For example:

The title "PE" requires a license.

The Title "PhD" requires a degree.

An autodidact with no license or certification may call herself an engineer, work as an engineer, and advertise herself as an engineer. She can design consumer products, aircraft (military and commercial), industrial equipment, medical devices, etc. Safety comes from insuring that the product is designed to comply with appropriate standards, not by attempting to control who is and isn't allowed to design things.

More usually, the post-nominal PhD refers to one who having a degree has then taken, a secondary, more advanced degree, (or even a tertiary degree, having attained an MA or MSc). Or after a period of further supervised study or original research has been adjudged worthy of the award of the post-nominal PhD.

I see your point, Medical Practitioners, are known as, or addressed as, Doctor or Doctors, (as a group), but it is purely a courtesy title, as with some dentists. They have no PhD but still use the title 'Doctor', having undertaken extensive periods of study.

Do you care if I flame you? This is an unmoderated group (I hardly need remind you!) and any one of the 6 billion people on Earth can post here and razz you. So get used to it.

John

What's all this strutting about intellectual superiority? Everybody is as smart as they were born, and nobody can take credit for that.

Designing circuits at least takes some work.

John

Is this passage from here:

"Laws exist in all U.S. states and in Canada which limit the use of several engineer titles, particularly the title of "Professional Engineer," and often also titles indicating a specific, regulated branch of engineering, such as "civil engineer" or "mechanical engineer." Most U.S. states do not restrict unlicensed persons from calling themselves an "engineer" or indicating branches or specialties not covered by the licensing acts...

Do you suppose this passive-aggressive martyr complex might somehow be related to that weight problem?

Thanks, Rich

... Everybody is

I'd take exception to this. Take a pair of identical twins, separate them at birth, and put one in a bare room and have somebody feed it and diaper it regularly, and then leave it lie there.

Put the other one in a room full of educational toys, jungle gyms, books, speak-n-spells, etc, and send in a nanny to play with the kid, read to it, etc, and I bet by the time they're kiddiegarter age, they'll test different on for example a Benet.

Thanks, Rich

Me too.

I'd be happy if a potential employer knew what it was

it...

Jim's politics worry me too.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Nature versus nurture. In fact smarts are roughly half inherited while the other half reflects the environment in which you grow up - mainly the influence of the kids that you grow up with. And nobody can take credit for that either.

And the personality traits that make it easier for some people to knuckle down and work hard are roughly half inherited and half instilled by the environment in which you grew up.

It make sense to know what you are good at so you can concentrate your efforts where they can do the most good, but strutting about intellectual superiority is indeed a waste of time.

Exhibiting intellectual superiority might make more sense - as a form of advertising - but you do have to know enough not to parade daft misunderstandings as if they might be bright ideas.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

So, how does the smarter one take credit for that?

John