A few Questions about Obtaining Design Help.

If you're in the US, check to see if there's an IEEE consultant's group in your area, then check its website. The one in Oregon is at http://

Better, if you know anyone who does engineering ask them if they have friends who can do this, or if they do it themselves.

If you're feeling adventurous, post something on the job board at one of those local universities (they'll have an office of student job placement or some such that will be delighted to hear from you). See my comments about university students below, and make it clear that you want someone who's done practical work outside of coursework.

Or see if you can get a recommendation from appropriate faculty -- in some places this works great, in some places the U will have rules against it.

The normal way is hourly. Figure out the skill level that you're looking for and check the US department of labor salary statistics for a similar job. Then figure out the hourly rate and multiply by three for overhead and equipment -- that should give you an approximate number.

Some contracts are let out as "design to specification". You don't want one of those, because you don't know enough yet to write a good set of specifications. Any smart candidate for the job won't want this either, for the same reason.

For this, do some web searches on general hiring. There are so many "don'ts" it'd take a post in itself.

No one bitter at past clients. No one who lies during the interview. No one whose reluctant to work for you. Etc. Remember that they're going to be at their best during the interview; if you don't like them then go find someone else.

90% to 95% of fresh university engineering grads don't know how to engineer. The remaining 5-10% will be phenomenally good, but they're hard to pick out. If you must go with a student or fresh graduate, look for real accomplishments, not high grades (in fact, that applies to anyone).

I'm surprised you haven't been flooded with a bunch of folks saying "me! me! pick me!" on this group. You may want to consider going over some past posts, looking for people dispensing good advice in a friendly manner. Then contact your favorite(s) via email.

It sounds like a good analog guy or jack of all trades should do, unless you're doing some really critical audiophile stuff.

Good luck.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Here is good.

Most engineer-consultants who have been around the block a few times can look at a reasonable set of specifications and give you a set price to design something to those specifications, including breadboard, testing, and preliminary pcb layout with deliverable Gerbers. Your job is to look at the proposal and see if you can do better on an hourly rate with another person who is similarly qualified.

Your problem is to do a fairly detailed and definitive set of specifications. If you specify "flat response in the audio range" and my "flat" is 1 dB and yours is 0.01 dB, we've got a problem. Likewise "audio range" to me is telephone audio 300 - 3k Hz and yours is audiphool .3 - 30k Hz we've got a similar problem.

Folks who think they are "complete" engineers who have never delivered a manufacturable design, don't quite understand real-world worst-case or Monte Carlo analysis, and have no background in your specific area.

ESPECIALLY avoid folks who propose to give you reams of theoretical data and theoretical analysis but can't predict what will happen if XYZ part shorts or opens up and exposes your design to catastrophic failure. Joerg is much better with his whhhhhhhissssssszzzzzz BANG fizzz comments, but you know what I mean.

Also people who give phony return email addresses ... like you did.

Do you really want a student who is probably in their senior or at least junior year and up to their hineys 80 hours a week at school and homework on your design? Or a faculty who last touched a soldering iron in their own freshman year of a fabrication class? I think not.

pm me snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com and I'll help you with the question(s) offline.

Jim

I have yet to have a client that could give me that "reasonable set of specifications" -- either they need my knowledge to specify things, or as soon as they see what I'm doing they want a change.

But then if this guy emailed me the first thing I'd do is tell him that there are less expensive folks who can do this work better than me.

--- except if you put in a real email address you get spammed. I hope you're not including obfuscated addresses or other clear pointers to contact information, like mine.

OTOH, a faculty member who's been actively consulting for the last 40 years would be dynamite. Dunno if you'll find many of those, but my favorite classes always ended up being taught by faculty that had significant experience in industry doing real things.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

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Untraceable funds???

I'd say prepare to get screwed a few times. I got a contract once because the so called expert who was working on the project just didn't seem to be finishing it. The customer, though in California, happened to be passing through Arizona, paid the contractor a surprise visit, only to find him working on his roof instead of his chip. I have no idea who it was since I just got a fresh RFQ, but was told the background story. I suspect to avoid a lawsuit, it was better to toss what work was done.

I got a call once regarding expert witness in a lawsuit against a design house. I knew the designer in question that was being sued, but didn't let on. I just claimed I wasn't qualified,. ;-) Technically, you need a Phd to do that kind of work.

I did some contracting while in college. The customer asked one of my profs to design something, but he said "oh, one of my student could do that!" Well, it wasn't that easy, but not all that complicated either.

Some of these design houses have stringers to field their RFQs. Good work if it comes your way and don't want to spend the months to actually get the product out. The stringer writes a technical assessment of design, and could get a follow on to sketch out the product for their in-house engineers So you might just contact a design how and spend a few bucks to get their assessment.

Avoid anybody who doesn't have the required licenses to do the work. You are asking for engineering work and, at least in the USA, that requires a state issued professional engineering license. Any disagreements that may arise that lead to litigation can run into serious problems if the other party doesn't have the proper license.

I suspect the same kind of rules apply in other than USA jurisdictions.

Contrary to popular belief, calling oneself a "consultant" doesn't eliminate the licensing requirement for engineering work.

Also, contrary to popular belief, there are electronic engineers who have the proper licenses and are available for such work.

And finally, I trust the backlash of irate folks who think the licensing requirement is BS and are more than willing to break the law is miinimal...

ET

Huh? What kind of commie hell-hole do you live in.

They certainly don't apply to any USA jurisdictions I know of.

Please.

Don't be an idiot.

No laws broken, idiot.

--
Keith

Maybe in Philadelphia, but not in the real world ;-)

Does Philco-Ford still exist? Go find out how many of their engineers are licensed ;-)

Sorry. You DON'T need a _license_ to do _circuit_ design. A P.E. is only needed for public works, like buildings, structural, electric wiring, plumbing, HVAC, etc.

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
 I love to cook with wine     Sometimes I even put it in the food

I've done a lot of *product developement* and if you intend to contract and manage product developement you need to know quite a bit about what's involved. From experience, I wouldn't turn on my soldering iron for less than $1000.

That's the law.

Liability is a big issue with a l o n g to do list, which covers the mutt eating it and not dying...bla,bla,bla. Taking arm waving to hard specs is a job, requiring assisting the customer to produce an RFQ, (Request For Quote), then formalizing a contract, for a customized system. Then there's WARRANTY, you get the picture?

Conception Dynamics, UltraLab group is a bit hungary right now, what's the over-all spec so far?

Seasons Greetings For C-Dyn Ken S. Tucker

Is that really true? In the "land of the free"?

Not in the UK (or the rest of the EU AFAIK), for general electronics design.

Designing bridges, maybe.

I suspect there is no such law.

--

John Devereux

I've used a real gmail address for many years on Usenet, I get virtually zero spam.

Dave.

engineering license. [Citation needed]

Evidence, please.

Only if by "Backlash" you mean someone asking you to prove your claim that US law requires a state issued professional engineering license to design a small opamp microcontroller project. I say that you made it up, and invite you to cite the actual law so as to prove me wrong.

There are a few places on earth where engineering requires a license. For example, Quebec, unlike the rest of Canada, requires membership in the QIQ (Order des Ingenieurs du Quebec) for all who use the Title "Engineer." It should be noted that a degree is not required to be a member of QIQ. "Applications from candidates who do not hold a degree that is recognized by the Quebec government as one that gives access to OIQ permits are subject to review by the Committee of Examiners. ... For candidates in category C [no degree] the Committee can recommend that the Bureau recognize their training as equivalent either immediately or after the candidates pass the examinations."

The question of whether EEs *should* be required to have a degree or pass a test is another matter. Jack Ganssle wrote this at Embedded.com:

"In the embedded world, no law dictates our use of titles or our ability to practice our art. Some engineers, for example those building structures, need licensure (Professional Engineers). That's mostly outside of the electronics world, despite the fact that we're now building systems every bit as dangerous as a bridge or large building."

It's an interesting thought. I like the idea of a test. As for a degree, there are many fine degreed engineers, but there are a few who make you wonder who they bribed in order to graduate.

--
Guy Macon

No, Eric, You are going to find that the licensed engineers (such as myself) will call BS to your statement, because the license is ONLY required in certain circumstances when you are talking electronics. The licensing is mainly required if you are doing ELECTRICAL (i.e. power) work, and mainly on public buildings or construction.

If you are just building gadgets, there is no need for a PE.

Charlie Edmondson Engineering Inc.

That doesn't happen to be true.

That's a tautology if the requirement for licensing isn't there in the first place.

Jim

Some states require a PE license to advertise yourself as a consulting engineer. It's not strongly enforced.

Most PEs are civil or architectural or chemical engineers. EEs, and especially circuit designers, are much less likely to be PEs.

In fact, calling yourself a consulting engineer is what *requires* a PE license in some states.

Yes, but you'll be severly restricting the available pool if you insist on it.

Irate? No. Just indifferent. We sell critical stuff into the biggest scientific and aerospace projects on the planet, and nobody has *ever* mentioned PE status to me.

John

My next door neighbor at the time I got my P.E. was an undegreed architect.

He told the state too shove it, and to come and get him if they thought they could make it stick. Arizona State Board of technical Registration left him completely alone.

And he even designed two story commercial buildings ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
 I love to cook with wine     Sometimes I even put it in the food

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Bad laws are _supposed_ to be broken. It's called "Freedom".

Cheers! Rich

Nah, Eric is full of shit. (unless you're designing a bridge or some such.) I've had the title of "Engineer" since I got out of the USAF in

1976, and I don't have a certificate of functional illiteracy (what a degree amounts to these days), only about 15 years' experience. ("BSEE Equivalent").

If I've been breaking the law for the past 32 years, it sure is taking them a long time to track me down. >:->

Cheers! Rich

But apparently not "Engineering Consultant". >:->

Cheers! Rich