Gulf Stream current at its weakest in 1,600 years, studies show

Warm current that has historically caused dramatic changes in climate is experiencing an unprecedented slowdown and may be less stable than thought - with potentially severe consequences

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Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred
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What nonsense.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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John Larkin

Don't know enough to say either way, but it's definitely good for the guardian's fund raising near bottom of the page.

Speaking of weather, i am surprised to see that SF:San Francisco is almost as humid as TP:Tampa, according to the data.

Morning/Daily/Afternoon SF: 84/71/59 TP: 88/74/60 LV: 24/17/11

Trying to convince someone that swamp (evaporative) cooler is a waste of money in the SF area. It would be good in LV:Las Vegas.

Reply to
edward.ming.lee

Humidity is usually high in SF, lots of fog. Nobody that I know has residential A/C... we leave the heat on all year.

Fog river:

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We get roughly a week per year, typically in October, when it's hot and dry, wind from the east, yukky. A ceiling fan helps then.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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John Larkin

It's actually in San Mateo, humidity is a bit better. but not much. Some summer days are pretty hot. There is an old swamp cooler and they want it fix. I am trying to tell them it's not going to work too well.

Reply to
edward.ming.lee

John Larkin thinks that because it doesn't line up with the nonsense he finds on his favourite denialist web-sites.

People have been measuring the speed (and volume) of the Gulf Stream flow for years

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and it has been known to have been slowing down since about 1970.

It turned off completely for 1300+/-10 years some 12,000 years ago

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which now looks as it was part of the switch from the last ice age to current interglacial.

If Greenland's ice sheet slides off into the ocean, that might dump enough fresh water into the North Atlantic to do it again. The current warming in the Arctic does seem to be what's slowing it down.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
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bill.sloman

The popular press don't always report things clearly. But the evidence is clear enough. The original paper is in Nature by Woods Hole & UCL researchers. Press release by WHOI here:

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Original Nature article here (may be behind a paywall for some):

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UK and Western Europe could easily end up colder in an overall globally warmer world. The NW coast of Scotland at latitude 57N today has hardy palm trees growing and is normally frost free in winter thanks to the Atlantic Conveyor bringing copious warm water from the Caribbean and prevailing winds picking up heat from the same warm surface waters.

Plockton being one such famous location at 57.3N

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Contrast that with Sitka in Alaska at 57.0N

Which is typically 10C colder in winter (more like what 57N should be) and with a lot more snow.

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Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

It is poor journalism, but that doesn't mean the underlying story is false.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

I wouldn't place too much faith in what you read in the Guardian. Just because the had a scoop with Edward Snowden doesn't mean they're infallible; they have an agenda to pursue just like all the rest.

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Reply to
Cursitor Doom

You should move to Texas. You'd pay lower taxes as well. :->

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Cursitor Doom

The key phrase here is "may be less stable than thought."

Alarmists assume that climate is naturally long-term stable (despite direct evidence to the contrary) and, when they find hints that some things may have changed, they get hysterical and assign blame and predict doom or worse. It's a living, I suppose.

If things like this keep getting discovered, clearly there is a lot to learn, so the high-gain climate models can't be trusted. That is a fundamental contradiction of mainstream "climate science."

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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Reply to
John Larkin

Unlike your favourite source, Russia Today :)

Reply to
Tom Gardner

is experiencing an unprecedented slowdown and may be less stable than thou ght - with potentially severe consequences

classic British understatement..

Way to talk about every and any thing BUT the topic at hand, without a stit ch of corroboration...15% slowdown in the era of modern measurement is huge by any reasonable measure, we're literally talking about mass flow of ocea nic proportions. How come the dimwitted are blind to scale? Never fails.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

Do you trust a 1600-year range measurement of 15% change based on some sediments and shells?

More publishing-bias nonsense.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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Reply to
John Larkin

It indeed used to be, on the time scale of human civilization (let's say a few thousand years).

Weather changes a lot. Climate doesn't, or at least didn't use to.

Doom is enough. Civilization gets more vulnerable by the day (more dependent on technology, population constantly rising), so we are less and less prepared to deal with a more and more quickly changing situation.

Your entire thinking is confinded to a pure cut-and-try engineering approach. You think something up, test it, and it either works or doesn't and you have your answer within days. Climate science (and a lot of other science) doesn't work that way because it looks at only one ongoing "experiment" which it can't repeat or change parameters of.

I guess that the "Since I can't exactly know the future I might as well just not worry about it at all" has its charms, but the key points are within the words "exactly" and "not at all."

Regarding the gulf stream: everybody talks about its ceasing to heat up Western Europe. I wonder what will happen to the regions that the heat is currently being transported away from.

robert

Reply to
Robert Latest

Ignoring MWPs and LIAs and minor things like that.

Of course it did.

The more advanced a society, the better it copes.

Yes, it can't experiment so it simulates. The sims so far have been pretty much nonsense.

The "scientists" have covered their butts. If the future is hot or the future is cold, they will say "told you so."

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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Reply to
John Larkin

Nonsense, of course. The scientists in question measured an Atlantic ocean current, and reported its change. The work in question is well-founded on facts, and a snarky comment from the Pacific coast is ... not.

Reply to
whit3rd

It is hard to argue with such a convincing argument. :-* Lol

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

ate is experiencing an unprecedented slowdown and may be less stable than t hought - with potentially severe consequences

titch of corroboration...15% slowdown in the era of modern measurement is h uge by any reasonable measure, we're literally talking about mass flow of o ceanic proportions. How come the dimwitted are blind to scale? Never fails.

Tee hee hee. Sediments and shells are terrible predictors. They forcast H illary would win by a 50 EV margin. Shows how much those Sediments and she lls know. LOL!

If nothing else John is amusing. It's not often you find people who are no t just ignorant, but willfully ignorant and happy to pronounce it to the wo rld!

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

ent

ust

Yeah, well... hmmmm... They are saying the current is dropping because the northern waters are heating up and that it can cause a deluge of cold wate r to be dumped into those same warm waters.... Doesn't that mean the two w ill have some element of counter effect? Then the southern waters are also heating up which also should strengthen the current, no? I guess it is a bit more complex than just A-B.

But I have wondered what will happen to the Gulf of Mexico if the current s lows or stops. That cold water has to come up to displace the warm water l eaving and if it is warmer or stops that should make the Gulf even warmer, no? Does that mean the shrimpers will be catching more cooked shrimp?

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

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