electric heating

Den tirsdag den 17. maj 2016 kl. 01.21.48 UTC+2 skrev krw:

yes ground source, pipes of coolant dug down in the garden then a heatpump to make hot water to distribute around the house

what I mean is that the hot water you get from a heat pump is not as hot as from oil, gas or district heating so you would need very big radiators to get enough capacity, it is a much better match to heated floors

-Lasse

We can run the gas stove! It will run up the indoor CO2 a bit.

When I was a kid, lots of people had unvented gas room heaters. I never knew of anyone dying.

Gas driers don't have a heat exchanger? =======================================================================

Not in mine or any other I've seen, the exhaust from the burner goes directly into the drum and out the exhaust along with the moisture and lint from the clothes. The flame cycles on and off on the outside of the drum, then the heat of the exhaust is scavenged by flowing it through the drum to maximize efficiency. Given how gas prices have fallen over the last decade, the last numbers I looked up showed gas about 1/3 the cost of electricity on a per-BTU or per-watt basis, and every gas drier I've owned or used had a burner output watt equivalent that was at least 20% bigger than the electric heating elements in electric driers I've used, so the gas dryer dries a load about 20-30% faster, for less money. The gas burns clean so I've never noticed any smell on the clothes. I love mine.

----- Regards, Carl Ijames

Gasoline generator? George H.

No they need a lot of area... can't heat hot enough for (relatively small) radiators.

George H. Hmm.. I just need to ~quadruple my radiator area.

Yes, you're right. This was in Florida so the lack of heat during hurricane season was no issue, but lack of A/C was. I don't know if he had a generator for the A/C fan. But the refrigerator was always the big pain to have go out in hurricanes, and I know his refrigerator would work.

This was in the 1960's, so it's be hard to find out, though I'm pretty sure he's still around.

Gotcha. I thought you meant radiant floor vs. forced air (or "forced cold", as I call it). Yes, it's not hot enough for radiators. Hot water "boilers" run just under the boiling point (195F).

They still do. The gas fireplace logs in our last house were unvented. I'll add the same here, as soon as I get a round tuit.

Battery and inverter?

Wasn't common, but they did.

Actually they do (unless the working fluid freezes, which is unlikely). You get less heat transferred per unit energy as the temperature difference over which it has to be transferred increases, but if you are using a heat pump for heating, the waste heat from the pump should be warming your house or whatever.

Probably. If they are in the heat pump business they probably know the physics to apply the math to, which you seem to have skipped.

If you are using electric heating or an electrically driven heat pump a "reasonable house" is super-insulated. There's a whole community out there that fills special interest magazines with endless articles on the subject.

It does pump heat out of ambient air, but the heat-transfer coils seem to be on top of the hot water tank, so it's stealing heat from your home heating.

Serious heat pumps have rather larger heat-transfer coils, and put them outside the house.

Since it is stealing heat from your home heating, and consequently working at a constant temperature difference, the thermodynamics aren't quite as favourable as they claim.

People still sell unvented gas heaters, but they have O2/CO sensors now. CO was probably more dangerous than CO2.

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:42:52 AM UTC+10, Lasse Langwadt Christensen w rote:

What krw doesn't realise is that 18 inches - 45cm - below the surface, the ground temperature lags the surface temperature by six months.

The heat that you dump there in summer is still there in winter. Not that i t changes the temperature much - the main point about buried heat exchanger s is that they aren't anything like as hot as outside air in summer or as c old as outside air in winter.

And of course the temperature of the hot water you get from a heat pump is the temperature that you design it to deliver. It pays to keep it low - the thermodynamics delivers more calories per joule of pump energy at low temp erature differences - but it's a component of the design, not a fixed prope rty.

Not well expressed. They think stuff that John Larkin can't follow, so he thinks they are being stupid, when the actual problem is his ignorance.

Not that I've heard about. John is probably channeling some denialist web-site, which delivers the kind of guff that doesn't call for the background knowledge that he doesn't have (and in fact is designed to appeal to people who don't know much).

Everybody gets it, but halving the carbon dioxide going into the atmosphere per joule of energy generated doesn't leave us with stable or decreasing atmospheric CO2 levels. Burning gas is better than burning coal, but it's not a long term solution.

We've got a a condensing electric clothes dryer. The refrigerator element t hat condenses the water out of the exhaust stream dumps its waste heat in t o air-inlet. That's reasonably efficient, and we don't need a hole in the w all to dump wet air outside the house.

And the evidence for this claim is?

If it's an Anthony Watts website - as seems likely, granting John Larkin's gullible enthusiasm for re-posting denialist propaganda - it's definitley n ot to be taken seriously.

Germany has adequate social security, and there will be mechanisms for anyb ody that poor to get their electricity bill paid by social security. There certainly were in the UK\, which is generally more cheap-skate.

As someone subject to them, my opinion of the Wynn government's competence (at that of their predecessor McGuinty of the same Liberal party) is not printable.

--sp

Oh, so by "inefficient" you mean only 100%. That's what threw me.

If you define a resistive heater to be 100% efficient, as some people do, a heat pump can be 400% efficient.