Does anybody really know what ever happened to sequential turn signals?

I'm thinking, a couple of RCs, a couple of comparators, and a couple of power MOSFETs should do the trick. :-)

Cheers! Rich

Post your question over on rec.autos.tech. There are a couple of lighting wizards over there that can fill you in on all of the rules and regulations regarding automotive lighting.

If you want to start a real flame war, ask about red vs amber rear turn signals.

I hope Mike Young forgives you for directing this observation and query to him instead of me...

In answering you, I first point out that perhaps you are taking my statement a trifle too literally. Of course what I was referring to was "instinctive behaviour". Such behaviour is common in humans when they perform many everyday tasks eg, typing on your keyboard, reading the time on a clock etc. This type of behaviour is an automatic response when certain physical or visual clues are presented and it becomes instinctive because you don't actually have to think about what to do or how to process the information. Perhaps it is more accurate to describe it as "learned response" rather than instinctive but you should grasp the idea I am getting at.

Well, as far as Australia is concerned, that question is already covered by ADR6, so there can be no arguments.

Vehicles built prior to 1973 can have red or yellow rear turn signals but thereafter they must be yellow or amber.

... a 1/4 inch^2 of board space, an 8 pin PIC, a fistful of LEDs, and something to switch the power. The wiring harness would be larger, heavier, and likely cost more than the electronics.

I'd ask you to pay attention, but you would take it wrong. There's nothing unclear about sequentially flashing lights. If anything, their apparent motion makes the meaning more clear than a single isolated light.

The problem with drivers is their lack of attention. If they can wreck when anything at all new comes along -- a new CD, an incoming cell call, a bad radio station, round tail lights instead of oblong -- then maybe we should stand aside and let Darwinian evolution take its course.

...

I think it's OK to ask more from operators of potentially lethal machinery than we do of scatterbrained kindergarteners. In all seriousness, if you fit that description -- "Golly! Lookit the flashee lights." -- you might want to consider that you're not operating at the 100% of others around you.

That's the last peep you'll hear from me on this. We're talking about turn signals. You know, those under-used indicators of driver intent. If the flashee lights make the owner that much more eager to turn them on and show them off, I'm happy to think it's a habit he might take with him into his future rides.

Be well.

I have a hard time equating that with the sequential lane change arrows often encountered on busy highways during construction - if it is a potential hazard why would the highway authorities use them in an already hazardous situation?

Dave

Minimize throughput? That's easy, Red = '1'.

No need for an expensive wiring harness. Put the PIC in the bulb, tie them all to the CAN, and have the central controller send out blink1, blink2, blink3 commands. ;-)

OK. :-)

The question was, "Howcome you don't see any sequential turn signals any more? I think they're kewl. Are they illegal? Was it that people didn't want to pay the extra cost for a frivolity?" Well, OK, a couple- three questions. :-)

Discussion ensues. :-P

I'm not worthy - mine are red, and there's nothing I can do about it. :-) (1986 Fiero GT)

Thanks! Rich

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:44:47 +0000, Mike Young wrote: ...

Cheers! Rich

I imagine he'll be able to figure out from the question what the point of the question was. :-)

No, you see, there's your error. These are not instincts. They are conditioned behaviors or conditioned responses. Instinct is something that's wired in at birth, essentially. Like, the only instincts humans are born with are eat, scream, and poop. Everything else we do is learned.

But that brings up another question - if you're driving on nothing but conditioned responses, and callng it "instinct", maybe we'd all be safer if you weren't on the road.

Thanks! Rich

Oh, yeah, I forgot to say, "anyone who recommends a 'PIC' shall be drawn and quartered at dawn. >:-( "

;-) Rich

I don't know about their legality on new cars (paging Daniel Stern...).

The original electromechanical implementation on the mid-60s Thunderbird and late-60s Cougar tended to be a bit of a pain as it got older, and was rather daunting to troubleshoot unless you are familiar with how it works. See for instance

Of course, they ran *all* the rear lamps except the white ones through the system.

One component, the stop lamp relay, was much more of a single point of failure than its name would indicate, and at least on Birds, is sometimes found in the "before" stage of restoration with its contacts not just pitted but completely vanished (which admittedly is mostly a testimonial to an inadequately spec'ed part -- there are a *lot* of light bulbs back there).

Nowadays you'd doubtless do some or all of this with solid-state switching.

And then you've still got hazard flashers (w/ two different wiring schemes depending on whether the switch is in the optional overhead console), front turn signals, and (in case you aren't thinking it's kinda over-the-top already) a current-sensing relay to make the fender-mounted turn-signal indicators double as a bulb-out detector for the rear.

Their "Unique in All the World" motto also describes what the previous owner of your car may have done to make some or all of this sorta work once again.

Sure is purdy as well as unequivocal when it is working, though. You get cooperation in lane changes and respect from tailgaters as in no other car when the Main Street Electrical Parade back there kicks in. (Good thing too, since a passenger-side mirror that belongs in a makeup compact was optional and a blind spot that could conceal a Macy's Thanksgiving Parade balloon was standard equipment.) Around town you probably get noticeably dimmer headlights too.

--Joe

...Jim Thompson

Same reason you don't see cars with the attractive and/or distinctive styling of, say, the '64 T-bird (which had sequentials) or the '62 Imperial (with free-standing "podded" headlamps) anymore. Cars today are pretty much lowest common denominator transportation devices.

For what its worth, sequential signals aren't illegal, and there are several groups that sell fully electronic sequential mechanisms for old T-birds to replace the electromechanical gadgets that originally came on them. They can be applied to any car that has 3 individual taillamp sockets in a single housing- I've seen them used on 90s Impala SS's for example. In fact, one of the guys that sells sequential electronics developed his kit explicitly FOR the Impala SS.

There is a company on the web which makes electronic sequential taillight units.

Just because someone makes them doesnt necessarily mean that they are legal anywhere. I have no idea of the legality.

They were very eyecatching years ago.

Ah yes, the MMobile.

For years the Imperial was specifically banned from Demolition Derby competition, as no other vehicle stood a chance against it.

I didn't know that but am not surprised. Aside from the sheer size of the thing, the Imperial kept body-on-frame construction for several years after almost all the rest of the industry, including other Chrysler models, had gone to unibodies for their passenger cars. Not until model year 1967, I think, did the Imperial go that route.

--Joe