Colloidal silver generator?

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Fri, 8 Apr 2005:

Didn't you just post about silver ions being converted to the insoluble chloride in the stomach? Or was that someone else?

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

I had the impression that the dissolved O2 molecules are picked up more or less mechanically by the hemoglobin and just sort of enclosed, without combining chemically, which is what it sounds like Mike is referring to. I could see how that difference could change the color.

But what do I know? ;-)

Cheers! Rich

I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Sat, 9 Apr 2005:

Not the difference between 'find out' and 'guess', it seems.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Still, ionic silver in the presence of HCl would form silver chloride. How then does any good come from drinking ionic silver, if it just converts immediately to silver chloride?

An interesting test would be mixing a gallon of 20ppm ionic silver with an ounce of vomit then checking if any silver ions remain.

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Jones wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Sat, 9 Apr 2005:

The other Mark implies that it never reaches the stomach but forms purple metalloproteins in the mouth. It's plausible.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Fri, 8 Apr 2005:

I think you should reconsider that. Find out why arterial blood is a different colour from venous blood.

But that's an aside. If it's silver ions that have the therapeutic effect, who go to the trouble of making 'colloidal silver'? Why not just make a very dilute solution of a salt of silver and a weak acid? That gets you the Ag+ and OH- ions you need.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Give a man a bible, and you've given him a way to smuggle a gun up on to the gallows and spring your buddy. (see "Cat Ballou")

--
Cheers!
Rich
 ------
 Prince Absalom lay with his sister 
 And bundled and nibbled and kissed her, 
  But the kid was so tight, 
  And it was deep night -- 
 Though he shot at the target, he missed her.

(Is there a way to get Pan to quit net-nannying me? I _KNOW_ it's more
than four lines. I _WANT_ it that way!)

The hemoglobin metalloprotein is a marvel of exquisite design. It has to transfer oxygen but it cannot bind tightly since it has to release it when needed. Here's the problem definition and solution:

"Oxygen binds to the iron ion tightly, and if two heme molecules come together in the presence of oxygen the iron atoms will oxidize and irreversibly bind to the oxygen."

"This irreversible binding would not be of use in the hemoglobin molecule because oxygen needs to be released in the tissues. The globin chain prevents this irreversible binding by folding the protein around the heme molecule, creating a pocket to isolate the heme molecule from other heme molecules (Perutz, 1978)."

"Therefore, the globin molecules allow the iron atom to form loose bonds with the oxygen, and therefore, the ability to bind to oxygen and then release it into the tissues without becoming permanently oxidized in the process."

Here is a marvellous animation showing how hemoglobin shifts position as it picks up oxygen:

"Hemoglobin is a remarkable molecular machine that uses motion and small structural changes to regulate its action. Oxygen binding at the four heme sites in hemoglobin does not happen simultaneously. Once the first heme binds oxygen, it introduces small changes in the structure of the corresponding protein chain. These changes nudge the neighboring chains into a different shape, making them bind oxygen more easily. Thus, it is difficult to add the first oxygen molecule, but binding the second, third and fourth oxygen molecules gets progressively easier and easier. This provides a great advantage in hemoglobin function. When blood is in the lungs, where oxygen is plentiful, oxygen easily binds to the first subunit and then quickly fills up the remaining ones. Then, as blood circulates through the body, the oxygen level drops while that of carbon dioxide increases. In this environment, hemoglobin releases its bound oxygen. As soon as the first oxygen molecule drops off, the protein starts changing its shape. This prompts the remaining three oxygens to be quickly released. In this way, hemoglobin picks up the largest possible load of oxygen in the lungs, and delivers all of it where and when needed."

"In this animated figure, the heme group of one subunit, shown in the little circular window, is kept in one place so that you can see how the protein moves around it when oxygen binds. The oxygen molecule is shown in blue green. As it binds to the iron atom in the center of the heme, it pulls a histidine amino acid upwards on the bottom side of the heme. This shifts the position of an entire alpha helix, shown here in orange below the heme. This motion is propagated throughout the protein chain and on to the other chains, ultimately causing the large rocking motion of the two subunits shown in blue."

Hi John,

You are right - making good quality Ag(+) is a real pain in the neck. However, you don't need the OH(-) ions, as my double chamber cs generator demonstrates:

The plain ion is needed since silver compounds have significantly poorer biological effect. For example, silver nitrate has a standard concentration of 0.5% which translates to 3180 ppm of silver:

A simple ionic cs solution of 10 ppm can easily be made with a 3 nines generator and does the same job without risk of tissue damage or staining.

Mild Silver Protein compounds (MSP) are virtually useless. These are the products where the FDA complained they discovered bacteria growing in the gel. They have such high silver concentration there is a real risk of Argyria.

Other products containing silver citrate are available. Here's one with a concentration of 100ppm:

"Silver 100 with Opti-Silver utilizes an entirely new approach to silver ion delivery. It is designed to overcome all the limitations of other forms of silver. It utilizes a proprietary method of complexing silver ions with a special form of citrate that acts as the stabilizer and delivery vehicle."

However, the time/kill study shows it has very poor performance. Scroll down to "1) Antibacterial Time-Kill Study":

This is even worse than Steve Quinto's results with Mesosilver:

So the shortcuts don't work and can be harmful.

There's only one Mark - Mark Jones.

There are several Mikes - I'm the one who has been posting the information on how to make cs, the silver electrolysis equations, solubility of silver hydroxide, the Faraday calculations, Fred Peschel's metalloproteins, Steve Quinto's results with Mesosilver, Frank Key's misinformation, and so on.

Mike Monett

[...]

I forgot to add if you have any questions or would like more information on how to get started, I'd be very happy to help. You really cannot believe how well this stuff works until you see it for yourself. I was extremely sceptical but my girlfriend finally persuaded me to try it. The results are just amazing. It will kill the flu virus and fix a sore throat in 4 to 6 hrs. You can use it internally or externally. Pinkeye is extremely contageous, but it is no match for cs. A cold, flu, or any bacterial or viral infection simply disappears.

The Shingles infection is extremely painful, but a good quality cs will stop it in its tracks. But you have to get it in the first few hours - every minute counts.

Cuts and burns heal with no scar. I recently got second degree burns on my left hand and index finger. The skin literally lifted off. I put ordinary bandages over the open wound and kept the pads saturated with cs. The pain soon disappeared and I was able to continue working without discomfort. A week or so later, you could not tell where the damage occurred.

It is so inexpensive and easy to make everyone should have a simple generator and know how to use it. Then you can say goodbye to doctor's bills and prescriptions for antibiotics, and never get another cold or flu.

And anyone who has tried it will tell you the same thing. It works.

Mike Monett

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Sat, 9 Apr 2005:

I thought that the reason you didn't use soluble silver salts was that the associated anion interfered with the action. You must have SOME anion to balance the positive charges on the Ag+ ions.

Once again, you are citing a version of chemistry that must be unique to you. There is absolutely no reason not to make an AgNO3 aqueous solution that contains 10 ppm of silver or whatever low concentration you want. In such a solution, the vast majority of anions are OH-.

Similarly, a very dilute solution of silver citrate is unlikely to undergo bacterial degradation unless the original water had the bacterial concentration of an African swamp.

I apologise for the confusion about the names.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Al-Quida isn't interseted in the Bible, they have their own texts to follow.

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Interesting,

at the bottom it admits that HCl nullifies ionic silver: "Adding HCl to the silver products, causes the chloride ion to bind the silver ion forming Silver chloride (AgCl). Since Argentyn23? is primarily an ionic product there is still a sufficient number of Ag+ ions left to kill the bacteria." But this is only when the HCl concentration is so low as to not change all the silver ions -

7ppm. So what is a typical stomach HCl concentration? Turns out it is 1-2pH, 0.01 molar. Keep in mind that true stomach contents have other various ions (sodium, potassium..) and proteins also.

And in the blood, what is the NaCl and other chloride levels? Perhaps some testing should be done here as well. Measure the uS of a dilute blood sample, then throw in a known volume and conductivity of CS, and measure the change in conductivity, if any.

Perhaps the "herxheimer" reaction = some of the HCl in one's stomach being consumed to form silver chloride.

If only the ionic silver is effective at killing bacteria, then how can any internal use be effective? That's the $20,000 question. External use is already proven and accepted [as for topical burns, cuts, etc - anywhere that chlorine doesn't exist.]

Not really. The ph will be a little off in distilled water, but the ion concentration is so low that most ph meters won't be able to measure it accurately anyway due to the low conductance of the solution.

Blood and saliva have so many anions they simply swamp the unbalance from silver ions. The silver ions are quickly taken up by metalloproteins.

The OH(-) ion is part of the Reactive Ion Species (ROS) which damages cells. There is a pathway in the body chemistry to neutralize or destroy it.

So the OH(-) ion is not needed and can be omitted from cs.

There are very few OH(-) ions in distilled water.

I don't know why silver nitrate is not as effective as plain Ag(+), but it may have something to do with how strongly the silver nitrate dissociates in solution. Many substances dissociate completely, such as salt (NaCl). Other ions like to stick together, such as CO2.

The standard method of preventing eye infection in newborns was to put a couple of drops of 1% silver nitrate in their eyes. This turned them black, which made it easy for doctors to see which ones had been treated and which ones were missed.

The damage caused by the silver nitrate prompted health groups to recommend alternative antibiotics, such as erythromycin:

"Because of the significance of neonatal conjunctivitis, all hospitals (most required by State law) routinely use silver nitrate or antibiotic drops, such as erythromycin, in the newborn's eyes to prevent disease. Silver nitrate is no longer commonly used and has been mostly replaced by antibiotic eye drops."

If 10 ppm silver nitrate would do the job, they would use it instead of 1% and avoid the tissue damage problem.

But ordinary 10ppm ionic cs will easily kill eye infections.

You are really confusing different topics. First, it is impossible to make good cs in anything less than the highest quality distilled water. The silver ion is captured by the anions in poor quality water and is not available biologically. I am speaking from experience - I tried and it doesn't work.

Second, the bacteria was found growing in MSP (Mild Silver Protein) products, not the silver citrate product.

Third, the example of silver citrate was included to show the very poor time/kill results:

I included these products to show that silver compounds are much less effective than plain silver ions.

No problem.

Mike Monett

I use

so it won't wrap in the browser.

You normally get silver concentrations in the tens of parts per billion in the bloodstream. This is too low to measure with an Ion Selective Electrode (ISE) since it may have a similar detection limit, and it has strong interference from the sodium ion (3500 ppm) in blood.

The silver content can be measured with an atomic absoprtion spectrometer, but the sample is vaporised in a flame or graphite furnace you don't know if you are measuring ions, oxides, or elemental particles.

Look further. Herx is completly different - it is caused by the dieoff of bacteria in your body.

Metalloproteins. See my previous posts to John.

Mike Monett

to the

etc

People often try to determine results by looking at hypotheses, which is a basic mistake. And irrelevant, until after such time as youve established whether it works or not. Only then does it become of any real significance.

Once again, the q is just does it work or not. And this is determined by experiment. You can not determine whether a substance will do x y or z in the human body on paper, as we are fiendishly complex machines. Guess, yes, but know, no.

NT

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Sun, 10 Apr 2005:

Nevertheless, the vast majority of anions present in an aqueous solution containing a low concentration of Ag+ are OH-.

Once again, your unique chemistry is exhibited. CO2 is a covalent compound and does not ionize in water.

That is simply impossible. It's the silver that causes the blackening, not the NO3-. IIRC, the 1% AgNO3 was effective against STDs.

I have never suggested otherwise about 'good cs', whatever that really is. I commented on bacterial attack on very dilute solutions.

OK, that no big deal.

Again, this is simply nonsense. You CAN'T have Ag+ without the corresponding anions. There are no such thing as 'plain silver ions' without the anions. Except in silver vapour, of course. Think 2000+ degrees C.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

That is true. But I recall hearing how close their texts are to the bible. They both instill that "thou shall not kill, steal, covet thy neighbor's wife, etc." They both are fundamentally about faith and kindness, compassion and perseverance. That is a good thing. But how can any of it be so corrupted? The manipulation of the text for Personal Gain is what I meant. How can anyone use the Qur'an, basically a peaceful text, to say the US are infidels and worthy of holy war? It says no such thing literally.

The same thing can be done with the Bible, although generally we can't get away with a "holy war" here anymore. But that doesn't stop Dubya from putting a big holy cross on the entire war effort, so I guess it still does exist, in a roundabout way.

I still think god himself should pop in *sometime* and give us a progress report. That should set things straight, once and for all.

-- "We've advanced technologically too quickly for our mentality. It seems ego is a bigger problem then first thought; we are still not the center of the universe." MCJ 20050320

Its already on his schedule, but its in his time, not man's. Something about Armageddon.

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

texts to

bible. They

wife, etc."

corrupted? The

anyone use

worthy of

if you can sell the numerous junk goods in the shops today, like 100A speaker flex, you can sell anything. It doesnt need to add up, people arent that logical. Logic and reason come from training, and even the ones that are so trained have plenty of logic limits. Ask any retail salesman.

can't get away

putting a big

in a

Thou shalt not kill, but god is on your side when you declare war. Its odd how these things slip past.

progress

God has. But some dont want to hear it, and some dont know what to believe.

NT