First it has nnt had 100s of years use. Electrolytic cs is a recent thing. Ground silver has a history of use, and is also called cs, but is a substantially different thing.
Why is it not documented? It is. There are various studies on it. But without any company funding it (no company stands to profit), the trials are small and from unknown sources, not from people that do this kind of work for a living. That leaves too many questions to really be sure of them.
There is a surgical dressing company with FDA approval for silver impregnated dressings: is it silverlon?
lab mice.
de-ionized/distilled
facts.
Silver toxicity is known well enough already, and is not an issue with electrolyic cs. So this doesnt need doing. Ground silver is another preparation altogether.
There are means other than medical studies that give us information too: I understand it has large scale industrial uses, these would not occur if it were useless. Having said that... I have no ref to back this up, maybe someone else here has.
It is called Argyria, and is very rare. Your friend was either making silver chloride by adding salt to the brew like Stan Jones, shown here in a photo doctored by a reporter to make him look bluer:
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or he was taking a silver compound such as Mild Silver Protein, Silver Acetate, or a similar product. Rosemary Jacobs was taking silver nitrate, but later changed her description to colloidal silver. She never took colloidal silver in her life.
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Silver compounds have very high silver content in a form that is difficult for the body to eliminate. They also have very poor antibacterial properties which leads the user to take more.
Solutions containing silver ions are very easy to make properly and are quickly eliminated from the body. The instructions are clear and readily available on the web. In over a decade of use by millions of people, not one single person has developed Argyria by taking colloidal silver. See
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Here is a good summary from Jason's web site:
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There are many documented examples in medical literature of the antibacterial and antiviral property of ionic silver solutions, and many testimonials from people who have used it to cure anything from pink eye (bacterial infection), flu and colds (caused by virus), warts (caused by virus), to Shingles (virus, see my shingles page - caution graphic photos) at
That's what Rosemary took that gave her Argyria. Silver Nitrate is a compound that works completely different from silver ions.
There are no pure silver particles in colloidal silver. The particles are silver hydroxide, which is inert and has no biological activity.
Silver electrolysis is as follows:
At the anode:
2Ag - 2e- --> 2Ag+
At the cathode:
2H2O + 2e- --> H2(g) + 2OH-
The ions spread throughout the solution due to mutual repulsion, convection currents, electric field gradient, and random walk due to thermal velocity. Usually the convection currents dominate. See my posts on "Making Ions Visible" at
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and
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Under the right conditions, the silver and hydroxyl ions can combine to form silver hydroxide:
Ag+ + OH- --> AgOH
Due to the high thermal velocity at room temperature, the probability of this reaction is low. The ions have to be close to each other and moving almost directly towards each other before they can combine. If these conditions are not met, the ions will be deflected by collisions with water molecules.
The probability of collision is enhanced in the Nernst Diffusion layer next to each electrode, where the density of ions released is highest. The density increases with current density at the electrode.
For example, at low current density, (ID < 1 mA/Sq.In.), silver ions from the anode can make it through this layer and reach the cathode where they accept an electron and plate out. The silver atoms can encase hydrogen gas to form small bubbles that look like spanish moss hanging down from the cathode.
At higher current density, (ID => 1mA/Sq.In.), the silver and hydroxyl ions can combine in the Nernst Diffusion layer to form silver hydroxide as described above. Some of the hydroxide forms a soft black film on the electrodes, and some disperses into the water. See
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and
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Silver hydroxide generates a Tyndall Effect when viewed in a laser beam. For an example of very strong Tyndall, see
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The silver hydroxide was previously considered to have a solubility of 13ppm. See
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However, my experiments show the solubility of silver hydroxide in distilled water is less than 0.655ppm, and probably zero. See
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and
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The silver hydroxide particles absorb the blue end of the spectrum, giving the colloidal silver a characteristic yellow tint that varies from a pale straw color to a deep yellow, depending on concentration. However, by adjusting the current density, electrode configuration, and adding means to thoroughly mix the distilled water during electrolysis, the solution can have a very silver oxide low content, and the ion content can exceed 95%.
From the above, it is clear that pure silver particles cannot be formed from the electrolysis of silver. Once a silver atom has given up an electron to become an ion, it cannot get the electron back. Electrons do not flow in water.
The only source of negative charge is the cathode, where the ion plates out and sticks due to Van der Waals force, or the hydroxyl ion, which forms insoluble silver hydroxide particles. These are inert and have no biological activity. They are hard for the body to eliminate, and can lead to Argyria in high concentration.
Only the silver ions are effective in killing bacteria, viruses, and fungus. See Steve Quinto's time/kill analysis at
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Additional supporting data are at
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The silver ions are quickly elminated from the body, and they do not accumulate. They cannot produce Argyria. See
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The typical concentration of silver ions is 5 ppm to 20ppm. This is measured with a Hanna 98308 PWT (Pure Water Tester), where the combined action of the silver and hydroxyl ions increases the conductivity of the solution. I did a study of data posted by Ivan Anderson, Trem Williams, and Frank Key, and showed the correlation between ppm and microsiemens (uS) is 1uS=1ppm.
To give an idea of how little silver is in solution, 1 ppm is the weight of a standard American penny compared to the curb weight of a Ford F250 pickup truck.
This means the solution is extremely sensitive to contamination. For example spray drops from household cleaners can travel an amazing distance and contaminate the cs generator. The drops could contain bleach (chlorine), vinegar (acetate), ammonia (nitrogen), or many other conaminants.
Accordingly, a conductance reading on the Hanna might be misleading due to contamination. In order to increase the confidence in the reading, you can perform a Faraday calculation to determine the amount of silver liberated during electrolysis, and compare it to the Hanna reading. Then pour 1/2 inch of the solution in a 3 oz shot glass and add a few grains of pickling or canning salt. these contain no additives that cloud the solution.
The salt melts and produces the folowing reactions:
The silver chloride is insoluble and forms a pale blue disperstion that turns white as the concentration of silver ions increases. At 20uS, the dispersion will start to obscure objects behind the glass. I am now able to make cs with concentration of 35uS to 45uS. The dispersion completely obscures objects behind the glass.
The biological effect of silver ions increases with concentration. I first used silver ions to kill the Shingles virus, as described in this web page (caution graphic images)
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However, the virus came back some 6 months later and formed very painful open bleeding sores. The cs I was making at the time had no effect.
I did come experiments and discovered the effect of current density on the maximum achievable ion concentration. This led to a new generator that doubled the concentration to 20uS. The first use was on a Monday. The following Wednesday, the Shingles blisters dried up and fell off. They never returned.
The new cs proved very effective against all flu and cold viruses, and vas able to remove a mole that had been on my arm as long as I remember. Many moles are caused by viruses, which are killed by the ions. I took a simple bandage and laced the pad on the mole, then kept it saturated with cs. After several days, the top layers started peeling off, and soon the entire mole disappeared.
This cs was effective on everything except the terrible symptoms from mold toxins that have crippled me for years. I developed a new generator that again doubled the ion concentration, to between 35uS and 45uS. The first use was on March 4.
The healing effect is so pronounced that I will be able to start looking for work next week, the first time since 1999. I am including a list of the date and time of each dose for your review.
So colloidal silver is a misnomer. It actually contains two components: silver ions and silver hydroxide. Only the ions have any biological effect. Silver ions in solution are typically between 5 and 20uS, but advanced generators can reach
45uS or more.
The resulting solution is the most effective antibacterial, antifungal and antiviral substance in existance. The pharmaceutical companies are terrified of this material. It would destroy their business. They have enlisted the FDA to ensure it is wiped off the market, and they use a misinformation campaign to make you believe you will get Argyria. As shown above, this is simply not true.
You can make it yourself for pennies. WQhen the next bird flu hits, millions may die. Learn how to make and use colloidal silver, and prevent this from happening to your loved ones and friends.
All the best,
Mike Monett
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is a list of the date and time of each dose that healed years of toxic effects from mold spores:
Method: Pour 50ml in 3 oz shot glass and hold in mouth for 10 minutes then swallow.
50 ml = 1.69070113 US fluid ounces
Fri Mar 04, 2005, 07:54:49 pm 44.9uS Sat Mar 05, 2005, 12:29:08 pm 42.5uS Sat Mar 05, 2005, 11:03:48 pm 42.3uS Sun Mar 06, 2005, 11:38:55 am 40.0uS - Small headache. Will see if it goes away. It did, sort of. Sun Mar 06, 2005, 04:25:26 pm 41.9uS Mon Mar 07, 2005, 01:08:09 pm 40.0uS Tue Mar 08, 2005, 11:58:48 am 27.2uS
I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Sat, 2 Apr 2005:
There is something seriously wrong here. Silver compounds, such as silver nitrate, produce silver ions in aqueous solution. They can produce argyria.
Colloidal silver should NOT contain silver ions. It is a non-settling suspension of extremely small particles of metallic silver.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
So what's involved in the "advanced" generator? A constant-current source?
I doubt very much that CS would have any impact whatsoever for headaches. There does appear to be some evidence of ionic silver dispatching bacteria, and probably a wide array of them at that, but I have yet to see any proof that viruses are affected. If that were the case, why hasn't someone taken over this market and made trillions as a cure for the common cold? Hmm.
It's all a little sketchy. Shingles, another virus. Warts? Topical removal of warts with CS? I seriously doubt that... the root of a wart is deep under the skin. The exposed parts of a wart can be debraded but the wart will come back due to its root. Why would soaking in CS be any different? And why wouldn't ingested CS accomplish the same thing? However, I have heard that warts cannot live in a moist environment, so if only by the application of CS the wart is kept damp, this may be the underlying reason for dispach. (I had a nasty wart on my finger for 10 years, tried everything... then one day I heard how Duct Tape works by keeping the wart moist, so I tried it... and lo and behold, two weeks later, no more wart. Now THAT worked.
I'd like to belive CS was some "miracle wonder drug" but so far, it sounds like hogwash - no hard evidence, lots of assumptions. Lets see some clinical results from scientific studies proving its efficacy, and not just "heresay", "age-old reports", and "secret observations."
That said, I have a really bad cold I've been suffering through for nearly a week... care to send me a sample of CS to try?
I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Sun, 3 Apr 2005:
It is very destructive to tissue. Silver ions have no effect.
None. The hydroxide comes with the silver ions.
Yes, Frank and I have had many entertaining discussions. He tried to convince me that electrons flow in water, and is now trying to convince me the absorption spectrum of an atom is determined by its physical size. I simply ignore him now. It is not worth wasting time on his crap.
I severely question your attribute "truth". Please do the experiments yourself.
This has nothing to do with ionic silver that you make yourself.
Questions about Frank's site appear regularly in the colloidal newsgroups. The comments generally follow the line "What kind of bullshit is this?"
Frank loves to hypothesize. He rarely conducts an experiment to determine if his ideas are correct. He spews on about competing products while he tries to sell you dirty brown water for US$425 per gallon.
Nobody likes Frank, and nobody believes anything he has to say about particles and ions.
He does have some useful pages. If you simply ignore his propaganda on ions and colloids. For example, the glossary is excellent:
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His report on Transmission Electron Microscope (TEM) images of cs is quite good, but ignore all the chemistry equations he gives. They are all unbalanced and incorrect.
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And the product reports are very useful. Disregard the accuracy he claims in his measurements. Numbers stated to two decimal places is rubbish. What is important is the rich variety of processes represented in the reports, and the typical numbers that can be expected from each.
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For example, as well as the Natural Immunogenics products favored by Jason, the American Biotech Labs "ASAP Solution" provides an ionic concentration of 19.6 ppm. Since ions are ions, this is probably a much less expensive product with equal performance:
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Nope. The body eliminates silver ions very rapidly.
Apparently the time I spent replying to you was wasted. You never looked at any of the references I provided.
Enjoy your flu, warts, Shingles, colds, infections, etc. And have a ball when the bird flu comes.
Most cs generators beyond the 3 nines use controlled current. Unfortunately, they like to use a LM317 which has a minimum current limit of 10mA. So they may or may not have control over the current, especially at the start of the brew when the dw has minimum conductance. So the results may be poor and non-repeatable.
I judge the quality of a brew by the ion content and how fast it decays due to silver ions combining with hydroxyls after the brew is finished. You can see the drop in the time/dose list I gave earlier.
Trem Williams of Silvergen makes a production cs generator called the SG7. He has two gallons of brew made several years ago that originally measured 45uS. He measured them recently - they still do.
At my request, he recently made two more batches with the same results. This is very high quality cs.
Besides controlling the current density, he also uses a pump to vigorously stir the cs. He uses flat plates folded like a fan for stiffness, and feels the pump action is not good enough unless the water is roiling.
The 20uS cs had no effect. The 35-45uS is very effective. But you also have to take many other steps. I have to sterilize my bedding and clothes each day to kill the bacteria and fungus that likes to grow in cotton and some polyesters. I use a modified dishwasher with a simple transitor temperature sensor and a LM358 driving a relay to hold the temperature at 230 +/- 2.5 degrees F.
Also, raw brocolli seems to have a beneficial effect with the cs.
Colds and flu are caused by viruses. Shingles is caused by the Herpes Zoster virus. You will not like it when it arrives.
Nobody can take over the market. CS is not patentable. That's why the drug companies are so afraid of it. They cannot charge their exorbitant rates.
Read my web page and check the references.
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CS easily penetrates the skin. It kills the virus.
If you hold 1 oz of 20uS cs in your mouth for sublingual absorption and spit it out, the maximum concentration of silver ions you can get in your bloodstream is 118 parts per billion. This is sufficient to kill most bacteria and viruses, but there is little circulation around the root of the virus. So it's difficult to get enough ions in there to do the job by ingesting it.
The root is already in a damp environment. Also, I have had plenty of warts on the soles of my feet as a youth. I was active and my socks were always soaked in sweat.
Next time try cs. It works faster.
I have provided hard examples. Check Steve Quinto's time/kill analysis.
I made no references to any such data.
For more information, please see US patent 5,814,094 by Robert O. Becker titled "Iontopheretic system for stimulation of tissue healing and regeneration".
Dr A. Bart Flick (inventor of Silverlon bandages) worked with Dr. Becker, and has been researching the medical uses of silver for over 20 years. He has compiled a list of 183 books and research papers which can be found at:
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His web site at
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has very graphic photos of burn victims healed by silver ions released from his bandages. Also some other examples of bone infection and maybe a finger healed by silver ions.
I would but it's too late. You should have asked as soon as you got a sore throat. That's why you need to learn how to make this stuff so it's ready when you need it.
But I'd be happy to send you some if you pay the shipping costs.
I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Sun, 3 Apr 2005:
John, I provided 13 urls in my reply. They were all relevant to the discussion. You ignored them.
I did not state AgOH was soluble. You provided the quote from Frank's page where Frank Key stated AgOH is soluble. His chemist, Dr. Maas, did the calculations:
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My experiments show it is insoluble. See
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and
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This directly contradicts Frank's claim.
Silver hydroxide is inert and insoluble. It has no biological activity.
John, I apologise - I took another look at your reference, and missed a key word in your quoted material.
In spite of the solubility calculations provided by Dr. Maass, Frank got this one right. Silver hydroxide is NOT soluble, which you state and my experiments also proved.
However, Frank states silver hydroxide is unstable and converts to silver oxide. This is not true. Silver hydroxide is stable to around 100C as demonstrated by my experiments.
Frank also states
"Silver hydroxide reduces to silver oxide and hydrogen."
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This is also not true. His equation is unbalanced:
2AgOH --> Ag2O + H2
He is missing one oxygen and some electrons. The equation should read
2AgOH --> Ag2O + H2O
There are many other examples of contradictions and errors in his site. For example, he states ionic silver will give you Argyria on one page, then states it will not do so on another. This really confuses the beginners.
So you really have to be careful when quoting Frank Key!
I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Sun, 3 Apr 2005:
Silver nitrate is ionised in aqueous solution, forming Ag+ and NO3- ions.
If it has no biological activity, what it the point of taking it?
I suggest a visit to:
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where, among other truths, one can read: QUOTE "pure liquid ionic silver in the form of silver hydroxide..." While the product is called Ionic Silver and it really is an ionic silver solution, the ad states that the anion is hydroxide. For this statement to be true silver hydroxide would have to be a water soluble salt of silver, which it is not. Silver hydroxide is not water soluble, meaning it does not dissolve in water. All hydroxides are insoluble EXCEPT those of ammonium, barium and alkali metal (Group I) cations. For more see: Rules of Ionic Solubility. This misleading information is attempting to obscure the true nature of the anion content of this product.
Laboratory analysis of this product has determined that the anion is citrate. So while the label simply states that the product is ionic silver, it is actually a water soluble silver salt, silver citrate dissolved in water. One can only wonder what they are trying hide. ENDQUOTE
ANY solution containing silver ions has the potential to cause argyria. Of course, the silver content of some products is so low, you would need to drink gallons....
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Sun, 3 Apr 2005:
I didn't see any references. But I do know a bit of chemistry and your proposal that AgOH is soluble and ionised in aqueous solution is a fairy tale.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Monett wrote (in ) about 'Colloidal silver generator?', on Sun, 3 Apr 2005:
I'm sure I didn't see any references to peer-reviewed papers. URLs to snake-oil purveyors prove nothing.
Let's agree to disagree.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
Ie you dont know. I've never heard of that one before, but will try it some day.
and
good good, because that establishes some important ground concepts.
over this
There is no business model to make any significant money, let alone trillions.
The company would have to start by funding research, which costs.
Given the level of public miseducation about cs etc, it would all be an uphill battle, requiring marketing money too.
And wheres the cash cow? There is none. Cs is not patentable, nor a trade secret, nor does it require anything more than 10 bucks of kit to make. Every tom dick and harry will make it, and do so without the huge costs already borne by the company. Its a business non starter.
Hence no marketing, no expensive research, etc.
removal of
Effective Topical treatment of warts is long established. Topical Acetic acid is used today, and was used as far back as the 30s, and works very well. No mystery there.
sounds like
to be more exact, it sounds like other than what youve been led to believe.
But you have a point: in the absence of fully hard proven facts, you associate it with other similar claims, most of which turned out to be snake oil. Understandable, but not really proof of anything.
T be more accurate we should say that some of such claims of antibacterial.fungal/viral properties of various odds and ends have turned out to be true before, though most have not.
thats the number 1 problem. There is no business model to pay for hard evidence. There are various studies, but the sources, methods etc are basically unknown and thus uncertain.
what assumptions? Who is making them? It either works or doesnt, its really that simple in principle. These discussions are solely for those of you who are too lazy to do the experiment and find out. And imho will never convince. It costs $10CDN to go find out.
I need to explain clearly - these headaches are due to personal hypersensitivity to mold toxins and are very different from normal headaches. Nothing affects them - the normal headache remedies such as aspirin, tylenol, etc., have no effect.
I found that 20uS cs also had no effect. However, after developing a new method of making cs that produced ionic concentrations of 35uS to 45uS, I discovered it did banish these headaches. I have no idea what it would do to a plain headache, since I never get them. Nature compensates:)
I also found that raw brocolli stems have a substance that also eliminates the toxin headaches. Cooking destroys it, and brocolli shoots have about 15 times the concentration of mature plants.
You can make a very simple cs generator with excellent performance. Buy 3 feet of 12 ga 0.999 fine silver wire. Monsterslayer is an excellent source that has no minimum purchase requirement. Email them for the current price:
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Find a 1 litre plastic food container. The dimensions can be about 4 X 4 X 4 inches and may be available in Dollar shops. Trim the lid so it removes very easily without binding.
Cut the silver wire in half. Fold each half into a "W" shape with about
1/2 inch between the legs. The middle leg can be about 3 1/2 inches long.
Use a sharp pointed tool and punch holes about 1 inches from the corner of the lid to mount the electrodes. The electrodes should face each other and be about 3 inches apart. The bottom of the legs should be about 3/8 inch above the bottom of the container with the lid in place.
None of the dimensions are critical, but you should end up with the electrodes mounted vertical, facing each other and parallel to each other. Use ordinary hot glue to hold the electrodes in place. Mark the lid near the electrodes with an indelible marking pen so you can identify them.
Clean the electrodes with scotch brite, followed by a tissue soaked with H2O2, then another soaked with ordinary drugstore isopropyl alcohol. Clean the inside of the container with H2O2 and isoprope as above. Scotch brite is not needed on the plastic.
After cleaning, never touch the electrodes with your fingers, never let them rest on the table where they can pick up contamination, and never use spray cleaners nearby without covering or moving the generator.
The plastic container may outgas plasticizer into the distilled water and give it an unleasant taste. You can eliminate most of it by heating it to just below the softening point in a standard oven for a couple of hours.
Good distilled water is very difficult to find. Try drug stores. Usually brands made by pharmaceutical companies tend to be better quality and more uniform. If you have the money, spend about $50 and get a Hanna
98308 PWT (Pure Water Tester). This is invaluable for testing dw quality
- look for water with 0.6uS to 1.2 uS initial conductivity.
The best place to get a Hanna is from Trem Williams at Silvergen. He is the West Coast distributor and knows all the problems you may encounter:
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The meters come with a certificate of calibration and hold the calibration pretty well.
Do not get a TDS meter. These have internal correction factors to convert from uS to ppm. However, they are intended for use with many different kinds of water, such as sea water, drinking water, sewage effluent, etc.
The kinds of ions and the correction factors change with each application, so you have no idea what it will read with the silver and hydroxyl ions found in cs. Also, the TDS meter has a full-scale range of
999 ppm, which puts pure water below the bottom digit so you can't use it to find good dw.
Get a cheap laser pointer to measure Tyndall. This is scattering caused by sub-micron particles of silver hydroxide. Red pointers have a wavelength of 635 or 650 nm, so the minimum particle size you can detect will be about 63 nm. Turning the lights out vastly increases the detection limit as your pupils dialate.
You may see brilliant pinpoints of light. These are not reflections from crystals of silver, since elemental silver cannot be generated by electrolysis. They are not present in dw, but do show up as soon as you pour dw into your container. They are simply bits of room dust.
When you are ready, fill the container and install the lid. Apply 350uA from a constant current source with 30 volts compliance. Monitor the voltage across the cell with a high impedance voltmeter and stop the brew when the voltage plateaus. Here is a typical run:
------------------------------------------------------------------------ DW measures 0.6uS. Faint Tyndall in dark room. Some sparklers.
A is anode
Sun Mar 13, 2005, 07:13:45 pm 22.5V Sun Mar 13, 2005, 09:46:03 pm 8.8V Mon Mar 14, 2005, 12:47:37 am 3.8V Mon Mar 14, 2005, 02:22:28 am 3.0V Mon Mar 14, 2005, 04:07:56 am 2.6V
Exactly. Apparently Mike has a special kind of headache. We've been hearing a lot about indoor molds lately.
No offense Mike, but are you a hypochondriac?
No money in a cure for the common cold??? Even if only at startup, before all the little fish catch on. "Cure for common cold, $100..." People already line up in droves waiting for their $50 flu-shot...
If #3 were true and CS is so great, why isn't every Tom, Dick, and Harry making CS? Perhaps there is little talk of CS, but if it were true, why not blare it out on the evening news?
Aaaha. I tried acetic acid. Did not work. I used it until there was a hole in my finger big enough to stick a pencil eraser into. Hurt like hell. Wart grew back. I was PISSED. Twe weeks covered in duct tape though, and the wart fell out, and has been gone ever since. :>
Some things sound corny, but work, like duct tape and warts. Some things sound good, like the $2000 speaker cables which promise "depth of sound never before heard...", but are quacks. When someone tries to make CS sound so promising and effective, it actually puts it in a bad light. That is why we need hard evidence. Nobody is going to take CS seriously until the FDA says "we've been forced to acknowledge that CS does indeed have medicinal value..." Not like that will ever happen.
Exactly. If CS actually dispatches virii, why cannot a mega-dose be taken to cure AIDS? Or Herpes? It seems to me, that the "people in the know", would definately have tried such a thing unless there was a good reason not to.
I was thinking of actually trying CS, after all this talk and contreversy. My findings would be reported accurately, of course. I'd like to make a few CS generators and hand them out to friends, with the only instructions given that as soon as they think they might be getting sick to use the generator to make some "stuff" and take as directed, writing each use and result in a log book. Then tally the results and determine if there really is any truth to the claim of dispatching virii. (Thanks for the bibliography Mike, I'll look into those.)
In regards to the actual generation of CS, is there a reason why AC current is not used? That would seem to eliminate the "polarized" effects. Might it reduce the ion-channelling as well? And adding a bubbler would seem to be an alternative to the stirring rod.
I'm confused about cleaning the electrodes - if they pit, is cleaning needed or will simple rinsing suffice? I suppose cleaning would be unneccesary if AC is used?
Feel free to suggest a business model. If you come up with one, youre a genius. Or if you have one, feel free to go into business.
already line up
Everyone will catch on on day 1 Mark, the company wouldnt sell a thing. No-one buys a $100 product when it sits next to an identical $2 one.
costs.
all be an
nor a trade
make. Every
already
Harry making
Look around you at what people believe. Look at the lack of convincing studies. Not difficult to see why. You could simply rephrase the question as: why arent you? Or: why weren't you 2 weeks ago?
Bear in mind very few people get into a discussion about it. Most take one look, make assumptions, decide to ignore it, and go do the housework.
Since it does work so well, I suspect its one of those things that will gradually spread, thanks mainly to the net. But as we see, people are more than just sceptical about it, and very very few are prepaerd to do the experiement. We dismiss cs because we've all heard these sorts of claims before, over and over and over, like a broken record. Wild snake oil claims are a well worn cliche.
blare it
why do you think
Acetic acid
well. No
a hole in
Wart grew
This doesnt change the point any, topical treatments are established and effective. That doesnt mean theyve never ever failed.
things sound
never before
promising and
I know what you mean. We have the stereotype well established, and cs carries that same story on the face of it. But what can you do? Lying about it is no way forward either. One can either state the facts and expect the reactions, or shut up.
"we've been
We do indeed.
It might. There is already at least one organisation now involved in testing alternative remedies, and finding positive rsults.
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Note I know nothing about the org, or their quality of work, its just an example that there is a business model emerging.
Then theres the work of the occasional rogue genius like Paul Clayton. So it may yet.
turned
taken to
What makes you say it cant? Just assumptions again, about the way people work. People die day in day out with the information on how to save their lives right in front of them. The reason is simple, people go on assumption, and are routinely not able to comprehend situations well enough to work out what the solution is. This basic human characteristic is one of the main reasons few are really wealthy. Despite all the examples of how to do it around them, they still cant work it out.
With medical treatments there are also other issues that are involved, medical research is not a clean clear field.
We dont know if it will treat hiv or not. There are people that survive hiv against the odds, imho the (sometimes oddball) things they do should be looked at more closely. Use of cs is one of those things.
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Until we get some more solid evidence, with what is known about cs all we can say is its possible, if not very likely. Add in the ease and minimal cost and it has to be worth trying.
to.
see above. Have 'people in the know' tested every snake oil claim? No. So why would they test this one, when it looks exactly the same?
see the business model, or absence of one. Say youre the boss of a huge corporation making billions out of antibiotics. Are you going to spend a small fortune on research that has only one outcome, to destroy your business? Or do businesses generally choose to fund research that promises profit? Its a nonstarter.
One body that does stand to gain from such research is the NHS. Not just with cs but many other things. Its about time they pulled their finger out, but the NHS is an organisation of pretty poor competence.
its really
you who
convince.
contreversy. My
few CS
given that
to make
log book.
the claim
Your friends will dismiss you as a quack and a complete nut. The pattern is clear enough.
You can assess it on your own. Take a whole series of situations in which the expected outcome is predictable (eg fever, abscess, etc etc), take the cs, and estimate the probabilites that the outcomes would have happened without cs, and thus the probability of cs having made a difference. String many of these together and the odds for the cs working are too high to not take seriously.
This is one reason people are so polarised on cs: the ones that use it swear by it due to results, those that havent say quack quack.
Its not double blind, nor is it controlled. All it can give you is an approximate probability. But thats good enough for the job.
current is
ac does not produce electrolysis.
good idea, might try that. I've never had ion channelling, but it would be good to find a faster method, 5 hours is a slow process.
cleaning needed or
if AC is used?
I've not cleaned mine much, and I get plenty of Tyndall and good results. A wipe with paper is all I do. The process breaks down the surface anyway, so I doubt cleaning is needed.
Once evidence for its effectiveness is established more firmly, I guess the next step would be to look at all the variations in method and assess each one. At this point we're almost still in the age of witchcraft in that area, with each maker having their own technique and tweaks, and offering sometimes differing explanations. But what matters is always the same: current thru silver in water.
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