you can leave these on float charge for years on 6.9, 13.8 and 27.6 V. Though compared to a cap they're expensive, heavy, short lived and prone to spray acid about.
sense ? At least for applications requiring 10-50 years life time ?
How about the controls at major chemical plants, significant utility complexes, e.g. major hydroelectric plants, or any significant infrastructure (including large buildings), potable water and fire fighting water distribution systems, etc., Need i go on and on? How long has the power genre ration systems at Niagra operated? How old is the Empire state building? The New York Subways?
I have been involved in several projects in which large motor controls (dozens of motors and VFDs) from the 1970/80's have been upgraded. The VFDs and motors are kept, but the control system completely replaced with a single box replacing several racks of control system in the original system. You would not keep the VFDs, if they aren't expect to last one or two more decades.
Generators and protection equipment in some hydroelectric power stations have been replaced after a century of operation.
Other power plants are designed for 60-80 years life time, so even with a mid-life upgrade, the devices need to last for at least 40 years.
s sense ? At least for applications requiring 10-50 years life time ?
Is the answer not obvious? So people can continue using their appliances, g etting 5 times the value out of them. Of course some are still wanted 50 ye ars on, some not. I've got several over 50 years old, mostly still going. W hen I build stuff for myself I dont normally design it to die young.
What's worthwhile depends on the app. Some things are worth the extra cost.
Utter nonsense. Do you think needs (or wants) are static? Do you think this level of reliability is free?
*VERY* few are worth the extra cost to design for a 50 year life. Name one. I can't think of any that would have even been around (in the same form) 50 years ago that I'd still use. *NONE* I would have paid five (or fifty) times as much for.
The electronics? The electronics would have been upgraded many times over fifty years. Some military aircraft have a fifty year life but the electronics gets replaced multiple times during that time.
this sense ? At least for applications requiring 10-50 years life time ?
, getting 5 times the value out of them. Of course some are still wanted 50 years on, some not. I've got several over 50 years old, mostly still going . When I build stuff for myself I dont normally design it to die young.
No, nor are they in most cases fleeting. The short life of so many modern p roducts is in many cases a big waste.
do you always ask moronic questions? Do you think buying 5 short lived prod ucts is cheaper than one good one? Many people seem to.
st.
Name one? Fridge, radio, hifi amp, fluorescent light, landline phone, batte ry charger, plus non-electronics like vacuum cleaner, oven, iron, sewing ma chine, washing machine, lights... I've got most of those & more from over 5
0 years ago, several 80 odd years old.
I said no to a couple of 1960s microwaves though, too unsafe.
I ask moronic questions of morons. Yes, I do think buying five short-lived products are cheaper than one lasting five times as long. I get the money in the mean time (or pay for it over time, if you choose to look at it that way) *AND* get the advantage of improved manufacturing processes *AND* improved efficiency. It's a win all around.
Modern fridges are *far* more efficient than ones made 50 years ago. Enough so that it's worth while scrapping 'fridges that are still in perfect working order.
Nonsense. Modern radios are far better and better suited for the purpose. Far cheaper, too. How many 50YO Internet radios do you know of.
See above.
How any 50YO fluorescent lamps do you have? Modern electronic ballasts are far better than 50YO fixtures. Advances in manufacturing have made them incredibly cheap, too.
Surely you're joking!
Yeah, the 50YO LiIon chargers were really good!
$3000 for a vacuum cleaner is such a good idea.
15 years is nothing, even today, though I haven't kept one that long for some time. There is no reason to pay for 50 years. People remodel more often and trash everything anyway.
That goes right next to your land-line telephone?
A good one will last forever. Nothing has changed, except the price has dropped like a rock.
On Sun, 05 Oct 2014 13:33:10 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz Gave us:
Good job, Keith.
Seems the cat is not very bright.
My 1970 Scott Acoustic Suspension speakers are still very nice, but need driver replacements, and being AS, the modern speakers would likely not revive the original response signature.
A rare exception, but only because nobody does acoustic suspension designs any more, so nobody make AS specific drivers. Nice cabinets though.
Even speakers are massively high tech engineered and so friggin cheap by comparison to yesteryear.
Look at baseball cards though. 50 times the price they were in the '70s.
Not electronics though!
Definitely... just like a house... keep your money in your pocket, and pay along the way.
All my laser Disc players and disc library have lost value. I managed to decide to collect the things with the highest depreciation rate known to man.
Old albums and film reels are rare and command a high price. My laser discs are from several million piece stamping runs and are not very rare at all. Though a few of my NASA laser discs are very rare indeed.
SOme laser rot though. I could by new versions cheaper than I paid for the library. I paid $125 for Criterion's 2001: A Space Odyssey. That 6 disc set IS hard to find. Not many of the rest though.
Funny... I only ever owned about three VCRs over time.
If you are looking only at consumer grade sh*t electronics, you may have some point.
However, most "industrial" and "computer" (pre 1975) grade components were not that special. The component density on a PCB was quite low, thus heat build up and hence heat generation was quite low. Electrolytic capacitors were big for a given capacity and they operated in quite low temperatures, thus the capacity loss/year was quite modest.
Since production volumes were quite low compared to consumer electronics, there was not much point in designing out a single resistor or use smallest transistor just sufficient to the task, so most designs were quite an overkill, but that doesn't mean that it would be extremely costly.
One example could be a +15 V 100 mA power supply on a 100x100 mm PCB with an outboard transformer. The rectifier had four 1N4004 diodes (400 V 1 A), the capacitor was tied to the PCB with multiple straps, uA723 regulator and a TO-5 emitter follower was used, driving a TO-3 (2N3055) without heatsink mounted directly on the PCB and the PCB and components were coated. Clearly an overkill design, but it would not drive up the cost significantly.
These days they put complete computer systems on a PC104 cards :-), so I would not expect those cards to last several decades.
Someone might think that getting 20-50 year life time will automatically require selecting each component for a space mission specification, but in reality, most industrial systems are just designed with good engineering practice settings. The fact is that most commercial electronics products are not designed with good engineering practice in mind, which may explain some short life times.
in this sense ? At least for applications requiring 10-50 years life time ?
fe?
ces, getting 5 times the value out of them. Of course some are still wanted 50 years on, some not. I've got several over 50 years old, mostly still go ing. When I build stuff for myself I dont normally design it to die young.
n products is in many cases a big waste.
ts. Or 15 kettles not one. Shrug.
roducts is cheaper than one good one? Many people seem to.
at least we agree there
which mostly translate to reduced buy new cost and shorter lifetimes
Yes - versus the upsides of buying good kit to begin with.
No. Some things are better new, some better old.
cost.
I'll accept that on run cost grounds alone. OTOH some of the oldies command high values, and their total cost is cheaper than a new leaner model that needs replacing 10 years later. And far nicer.
Obviously one can get a wide range of quality & price in both camps.
I didnt propose internet radios. That would be moronic.
wrong, very wrong.
whereas still using an old one costs nothing to buy. Modern hf ballasts are slightly more efficient, not much. People pay good coin for historic indus trial lighting.
what's funny about that?
lead acid stupid.
what are you currently on?
fools do.
ook
they have, though not fundamentally.
?
they take filament, cfl or led, and are much older than that.
rs old.
At the risk of stating the obvious, I know the facts you don't. Yet you cla im to know better. Classic foolishness.
On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 14:19:46 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@care2.com Gave us:
I have a first release Motorola "Mobile Phone" from the late '80s.
Even those few years back makes this technology obsolete.
You do not see me out there trying to say folks should still be using them. It is a museum piece.
In the modern world, technological gadgetry becomes museum piece relics far faster than the old standard 50 year cycle.
I have an original Tandon 10MB full height hard drive from the original IBM XT. I also have an mSATA drive that fits in the palm of my hand, and about 40 HD "drives" in between. Many of them still in this room. I buy them a couple times a year as scientific technology and manufacturing technology advances.
I think you have trouble grasping the pace at which mankind marches along.
Hell, I think you must be a lost, up-n-coming (wanna be) newbie with some of the shit you spew.
Actually Wiki is correct. There are alkaline batteries that are rechargeable. They came out in about 1969. They were sealed and essentially the same as the non-rechargeable Alkaline batteries.
Have you any experience with recharging ordinary alkaline batteries? I hav e a little personal experionce, but where I worked they had a lot of experi ence. If you do not discharge the battery below about 1.3 volts , they recharge j ust fine. They can not be recharged too many times, but there is no proble m with explosions. or leaking. You do lose the warranty, but it is kind of like using tires that are retreaded.
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