Rooftop Pv installers in Sydney area

pot kettle black bitch

**NO. I said nothing of the kind. I said that supply - demand issues will dictate the pricing. At present, demand outstrips supply. It's basic economic theory. The "new thin film technologies" have been around for awhile. They're not 'vapourware'. As supply increases, prices will fall. As prices fall, demand increases, thus tempering supply and, in turn, prices. It's all in my old school economics text books. **Why? Is it better to continue to hand out taxpayer money to the coal producers?

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Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

One would expect the supply to ramp up pretty quickly if there was a significant buck to be made. If that's not happening, it must be because the price is being dictated by manufacturing cost, not by demand.

Prices drop when supply increases, but supply only increases if it's financially worthwhile.

I don't see any proposals to subsidise domestic coal powered generators, nor to let consumers sell power from their domestic coal powered generators back to the grid at inflated prices.

Sylvia.

**Once again: We're not manufacturing lead/acid batteries. Silicon fab facilities are VERY expensive to build. A decision to build may result in the facility being operational several years down the track. Additionally, since the need to produce cheap PV cells is contingent upon fossil fuel prices being high, there has been no real necessity to ramp up production 'till recently. Combine that with the stranglehold that BP has held over the industry for many years and you have a recipe for slow development. BP's stranglehold is faltering (thanks to Chinese production), so we may see some big changes soon. **Of course. You also need to keep in mind that BP has had defacto control over the PV cell industry for a long time. **Coal producers have, for a very long time, been using the infrastructure provided to them at taxpayer expense (road, rail, ports system). They have also been allowed to pollute, unhindered, for a long time. It is only fair to provide similar incentives to other, less polluting, industries.

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Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

I didn't have to offer any more, I was agreeing with Trevor's comprehensive reply.

Dave.

No, it is only fair to make them ALL pay the total cost to the country as a whole, including any effect of mitigating pollution, so the cheapest most effective solution can win out in the end. That will NOT be solar panels on house roof tops, but MAY be large solar panel arrays connected to the grid. (or more likely a combination of *large* solar, wind, tidal etc. solutions, rather than individual flea size installations)

The current government rebates simply create a market for far less effective solutions, which entail far higher installation and maintenance costs per kWHr. Once again it is simply Government wasting taxpayers money in an attempt to APPEAR to be doing something!

MrT.

**True.

**Agreed. It is a really dumb idea, inhereted from the Howard government. I'm all for solar cells, but they need to be in large arrays. **Yep. Rudd is just as guilty as Howard.

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Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

So the current contract offer from Integral energy to lock my current prices for two year is a good bet?

Basically, they are not falling significantly. PVs require a humoungous factory and no one has stumped up the money for that set up unless an existing factory has closed down.

This little boxen isn't claiming to increase panel output, Just rejig the wiring to cut out low performing panels (shade?)

Far different beasts. Car lead acids are not power system lead acids.

When did the price drop occur from the realisation that PV does not need the same high quality silicon as ICs? Or has no one ever built a factory to manufacture LowQ silicon for PV?

**Maybe. I doubt electricity will be falling in price anytime soon. **China is. However, most of it's production will be soaked up internally. **Yep. There are a couple of system around, but they tend to be variations on the same theme. Instead of using a handful of large slices, manufacturers split the panel into dozens (or hundreds) of smaller cells. Thus, if the panel is partially shaded, it may still deliver it's full Voltage, albeit at lower current.

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Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

**The silicon required to produce PVs needs to be of very high quality, if efficiency is to be maintained.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Err, AFAIK, they do not. It isn't unusual for a significant amount of capacity to be off line for maintenance. In fact, it is essential for reliability.

Full time when they're available to be scheduled. Other capacity spends much of its time available to be scheduled, but off line, because its marginal cost of operation exceeds that of the coal fired plants.

Sylvia.

So. They would not have been built if there wasn't a gap in the market that coal could not fill. It is the same for PV on suburban rooftops. They can fill gap in the market.

The clouds part over the suburb of wankerville and all those coddled house mums wack on the aircon. If we wait for the centralised generators like hydro, ICE's, etc to kick in, we can have minutes of low power.

Now, if some of those roofs have PV installations, their output varies with the sunshine and they are right on the spot to provide power where and when needed, actually before it is needed.

You need to get off the mindless repetition of jargon. It isn't an argument.

I think the "soon" is redundant.

MrT.

There isn't so much a gap, as a distortion. Without massive subsidies only a few green enthusiasts would get further than noting the price.

And when the clouds close over again, the PV output drops, but the airconditioners are still on until said coddled house mums get round to turning them off, thus leading to a power shortfall.

In reality, of course, the situation isn't like that. Clouds do not part over large areas at once, and people do not react instantly. What happens is that as the load increases the frequency tends to drop. Generators providing frequency control (a special service for which they get paid) then increase their output to maintain the frequency. They can do that very rapidly because the generators are already rotating at the correct rate. Essentially they just open the throttle to prevent the generator from slowing down.

Sylvia.

Verve Energy in Western Australia is about to be subsidised to the tune of $700 million. They have been made, by law, to sell their electricity at below cost. Having run up a huge debt the state government has to bail them out. You can build your own coal fired generator and sell it to Western Power for 10/11 of what you would otherwise pay for it. At quantities above 1 megawatt you can negotiate better rates.

It's desirable as a producer to run at full capacity but it's the spot market that determines who actually runs. The customer wants the cheapest energy and doesn't particularly care about the producers problems. In fact producers in Western Australia get fined tens of thousands of dollars per hour for unscheduled outages, and that's in addition to having to pay another supplier to cover your shortfall.