I need opinions for an OS which must be Open Source & and have Open Source dev tools. The CPU we're using is the AT91R40008-66AI, we have
1M of SRAM & 2M of Flash (I may be able to double both), I need to add network support but we haven't selected an interface yet. The device will be used for Home Automation and will support smaller remote ucontrollers as well as directly connected sensors.Thanks.
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@comcast.net http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
I would strongly recommend eCos for this application. sources.redhat.com/ecos. eCos is Not Linux (pronounced to rhyme with GNU is Not UN*X). But familiarity with Linux will speed you up the eCos learning curve.
Thanks!
I'm actually going to avoid using Linux or *BSD because I don't need all that extra stuff. I'll visit RedHat and maybe get a book on eCos to familiarize myself with it. Any idea on what the recommended minimum memory foot print might be. I went searching before but didn't make much head way. I'll still listen to opinions just to make sure.
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@comcast.net http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
Neil Cherry enlightened us with:
Note: eCos is no longer a Red Hat owned project. It is just hosted there.
You can see Anthony Massa's book at
"Recommended"? As small as possible of course ;-). eCos's overhead scales from 1K to hundreds of K. eCos is configurable, so it depends on what eCos features you include.
Jifl
-- --["No sense being pessimistic, it wouldn't work anyway"]-- Opinions==mine
I found the book and because I'm leaning towards ECOS I'm going to purchase the book. I also found this article:
on ECOS vs ucLinux I found number I can start with. It states ECOS -
60K vs ucLinux 600K as a starting point but if I double ECOS (120K) & half ucLinux (300K) I still lean towards ECOS. I've downloaded ECOS and I'm going to work with it over the next few weeks and I'll see where it leads me. Thanks this has been very helpful so far.-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@comcast.net http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
Is eCos covered by the GNU licenseing agreement?
Hul
Lewin A.R.W. Edwards wrote: :> I need opinions for an OS which must be Open Source & and have Open :> Source dev tools. The CPU we're using is the AT91R40008-66AI, we have : : I would strongly recommend eCos for this application. : sources.redhat.com/ecos. eCos is Not Linux (pronounced to rhyme with GNU is : Not UN*X). But familiarity with Linux will speed you up the eCos learning : curve. : :
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Yes, but with an exception clause. See
Regards, Daniel
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The short answer to that is "you can release closed-source applications based on eCos".
I've just been looking into the amount of memory needed for an eCos application and the code size for an image with the kernel, scheduler, libraries, Ethernet driver, FreeBSD net stack, tftp, DHCP client, SNMP, web server, RAM file system, Flash file system (JFFS2), but not really any application (just the snmp test) that I just built is about 640k bytes. That was for an Xscale processor (IXP425). I haven't worked out how much RAM it eats up yet. Redboot is about 180k code size.
- Charles
Which compiler did you use for the eCos version and which for the Redhat?
: I've just been looking into the amount of memory needed for an eCos : application and the code size for an image with the kernel, scheduler, : libraries, Ethernet driver, FreeBSD net stack, tftp, DHCP client, : SNMP, web : server, RAM file system, Flash file system (JFFS2), but not really any : application (just the snmp test) that I just built is about 640k : bytes. That : was for an Xscale processor (IXP425). I haven't worked out how much : RAM it eats up yet. Redboot is about 180k code size. : : - Charles
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You use gcc for eCos and RedBoot. For the current version of eCow, Gcc
3.2.1 is the recommended version, IIRC.
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I used GCC 3.3 from the GNUPro tools 030630 for both eCos and RedBoot (same thing, really, RedBoot is just a specific configuration of eCos).
- Charles
Thanks - Hul
Charles Oram wrote: : Hul Tytus wrote in message news:... :> Which compiler did you use for the eCos version and which for the Redhat? :> :> :> : I've just been looking into the amount of memory needed for an eCos :> : application and the code size for an image with the kernel, scheduler, :> : libraries, Ethernet driver, FreeBSD net stack, tftp, DHCP client, :> : SNMP, web :> : server, RAM file system, Flash file system (JFFS2), but not really any :> : application (just the snmp test) that I just built is about 640k :> : bytes. That :> : was for an Xscale processor (IXP425). I haven't worked out how much :> : RAM it eats up yet. Redboot is about 180k code size. :> : :> : - Charles : : I used GCC 3.3 from the GNUPro tools 030630 for both eCos and RedBoot : (same thing, really, RedBoot is just a specific configuration of : eCos). : : - Charles
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Have you considered Forth? I don't think there are any Forths avaiable that will run on your embedded target out of the box, at least not free ones. But there are plenty that can be ported to the ARM.
We expect to run Forth on the ARM on a new DSP board we are building. But we are buying the MPE forth.
-- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX
What are you nuts? ;-)
I've decided on ECOS as our OS of choice. I think we really need an OS as opposed to first learning Forth then writting our stuff. I've also decided to go with the AX88796 chip for net access and I think we may use the GoAhead software web server. This leaves us to work on the all important Home Control System software.
Actually I don't have the time needed to learn Forth, I'm currently working full time, taking 2 - 4 credit courses and working on the HCS project. I still have my home and family so there no time left for extra learning. I'm somewhat familiar with ECOS, the AX88796, C, C++,
*nix and the ARM board so it's a pretty good fit. Also I doubt too many of this Open Source project participants know Forth which makes it a bad choice in this case (those were some of the other details that I left out of the message, sorry).-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@comcast.net http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
Yes, but isn't that question off topic?
What extra stuff would you need to write? Depending on the version that you use, Forth is a complete OS. Since you are using an ARM chip, there are a couple of versions available already ported and porting to a processor can be fairly easy if you start with a well built package.
That may be. But there are a lot of people from the forth community willing to help you out. But they are a different breed. :)
-- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX
Good answer!
Yet that is part of the problem, I'm not familiar with Forth. The group and myself are familiar with Linux and Windows. Forth would add one more thing to learn. Since we have a realitively small group of do-ers (3-4) and a few followers (waiting for usable hardware & software I guess).
Yes, they can take a joke (my comment above) with little insult. This is a good thing. :-) Maybe one day I'll get a chance to learn Forth but for now I've got my hands full.
Actually I don't expect a lot of people to be involved in our HCS project. I really need to update the web page as we're much further along than the page lets on. There are 2 links which may be of use to those of interest:
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@comcast.net http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
Any links to the forth ports for arm ?
I've found
Any recommendations ?
Our VFX Forth cross compiler produces quality code, has been shipping for several years, includes an RTOS, and we also have a TCP/IP stack with multi-threaded Telnet and Web servers (with CGI and ASP). All this fits in about 110k code space on most ARMs. You get all the source code.
Stephen
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