OT GW

They never are.

All an independent can ever hope to do is hope to hold the balance of power as it's the only chance they ever have of getting what they want. If they don't then they're on a completely irrelevant junket for as long as they hold their seat.

They've certainly made a *huge* mess, and the illegal immigrant issue has been a *major* catastrophe.

We had more boat arrivals in November alone than we did in the last 5 years of the Howard Government.

(snip)

Another figure pulled straight out of your arse, Trev? Or more of your blind faith in the utterances of the pro-carbon-tax groupies?

Accept or deny these simple facts:

1. Electricity generators (the organisations, not the hardware) will NOT materially change their existing plant in the face of the tax. They will simple pass on the cost to their customers.

1. They (Verve in the case of W.A.) have estimated a minimum 8% increase based on the *startup* tax rate. (And note that the tax will increase yearly after its introduction.)

2. The S.A. government recently provided a figure of ~00 as the average household annual electricity bill. (Mine here in Perth is somewhat higher).

1. 8% of 00 p.a. is 0 p.a. - more than TEN TIMES your fanciful

So you think the generators will pass on less than 10% of their tax bill? You ARE living in a dream world.

I wonder why your preoccupation with the aforementioned? You seem to think that everybody that is opposed watches or listens to them. I never listen to Alan Jones (don't like him)don't listen to the other two either, You would be better sticking to your take on the facts, continually harping on localized personages does not help your argument, especially with people who have never heard of them.

Or even a longer - but natural - cycle. The presence of residue of temperate forests under the (in places) kilometre-thick ice cap in Greenland suggests this planet has "been there, done that".

And I doubt that even Trevor could call that prior period the result of AGW.

By what reasoning? He has said that he does not accept either plan.

Abbott's plan has been universally condemned as

Nope. Far from it. Temperature rose more than 10°C/century at the end of the Younger Dryas.

The availability of oil has nothing to do with climate change. Nor does anthroprogenic CO2.

There is no peer-reviewed paper that provides a causal link between anthroprogenic CO2 and climate change.

Turn off your computer now and save the planet. From your stupid remarks.

That of the climate "scientists" who hide the uncertainty and exaggerate the significance; to perpetuate their own income and to feel good about supporting "the cause".

Oh? So why were you rambling on about "consensus" then?

Irrelevant bollocks. The climate "scientists" have been gilding their turds and selling them as science.

Why do you deny that? It's plain as day in the UEA emails.

You've always been a denier.

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Corrupt law enforcement and legal system that represents the state's interests, does nothing to protect and in fact blatantly violates my human rights or common law rigthts, involved in dealing drugs, frequent bashings of innocent people bribery, illegal falsified search warrants to critics of gov or police (gold coast), pretty much no oversight or punishment Selective justice and charges laid/not laid based on class, race etc ? What planet do you live on ?

Mostly thanks to the benefits of electricity, and the invention of the internal combustion engine allowing us affordable and fast transport, plentiful and cheap (despite the coles/woolies duopoly trying to stop this) easy moving around of food, fast access to medical care, and relieving us from back breaking and costly manual labour and injury.

Take these things away, like the warmists and greens want to - and watch over time longevity plummet.

Rubbish Removal of freedom to defend yourself from death or bodily harm by preventing law abiding citizens from defending themselves, or owning firearms while criminals run around with them, leaving your protection (racket) up to the authorities who will only "protect" you based on criteria mentioned above, and will burn you if you are middle class and attempt the slightest thing to protect yourself, your property or your family.. You may be legally right, but you will probably lose your home and savings trying to prove this, and everything if you fail. It is a total joke and a greater threat than "criminals" going up against an armed public.

Unless its by those in uniform.

Could live without it, as it would be cheaper for me to take it to the dump myself, rather than pay the mandatory garbage collection fee, which I cannot opt out of

Not relevant to taxation. Privatised and rapidly becoming unaffordable to many

I'm glad you didnt say good roads ;)

These could be paid for by fuel tax/excise and registration I'm happy to pay my share of road costs as a road user, but most of the above does not get spent on roads if you are outside the capital or major areas, you are made to pay (often more due to distances you have to travel) more but get less. (fuel excise is probably a better option as it accurately represents road usage.)

If I read a critique from an expert film critic panning a film that is the one I watch (they are usually better) I do not take the word of a single doctor, any thing microsoft says is suspect they only want to make money, I would bet that Noddy knows many expert mechanics who are anything but. I would wager that these public figures that you seem to have a phobia about are not always wrong they are not experts they just repeat what others who may or may not be experts in their field say.

LMAO :)

You mention tide, that is one thing that records from pinchgut do not seem to jell with govt predictions.

What was their early psition on DDT?

Umm, John howards Malaysia solution was to take those with money, make them do a 6 months course and them give them permanent residency no questions asked.

The rot has been into the Labor Party for decades and the Liberals are just a few years behind them.

Do you have a URL? I've tuned out for a while when t went all PR statements rahter than science discussion.

BTW: The theory of human induced global warming is not a new idea. It was first theorised well over 100 years ago. Over the last 100 years, mounting evidence has eradicated oposition to the theory. Except by people like Alan Jones, George Pell and Nick Minchin. Of course, those guys are ignorant of science.

-- Trevor Wilson

Hmm, will you vote Labor if it is only 30c/week?

It is because in these groups people are a bunch of friends who like a chinwag and it is impossible to have a chinwag in the proper group like aus.politics as it is inhabited by raving ratbags and lunatics worse than our friendly ones.

If you take a look at the modern USA, it seems going down the same path

Apart from trying to spy on and monitor everyone and anyone possible, you recently got this "super congress" that is modelled on the Nazi "enabling act" of the 30's and a couple of days ago this absolutely chilling law just passed by their congress that anyone SUSPECTED of being a terrorist can be grabbed without warrant, evidence or any due process and detained indefinitely, probably in something like gitmo, or these overseas torture centres.

Bit rich considering there is an ever growing body of evidence that the gov had quite a bit to do with causing 9/11 in the first place

Not to mention the molestations at the airports

Then in the USA we get these armed raids on people selling raw milk or organic foods, (including Amish) kids being prosecuted for having lemonade stands people arrested for having a garden (vegetables, not illegal substances). Google all this and be prepared for a shock, if you aren't aware of it already

I think anyone who lives there, that can, should look seriously at a plan to get out of there if the worst happens, while they are still actually able to do so.

Well, frankly, as far as some experts go, listening to Alan Jones can not be any worse. Many "medicial specialists" are just crowd followers and faddist, even within their own field.

You have to educate yourself and decide what is working and what isn't.