Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating

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Debugging advice requested.
I have never debugged a refrigerator in my life.
I never even looked at the back of one before.

2010 Sears Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 refrigerator/freezer just stopped
working at the same time that a periodic "humming and then clicking" noise
started happening.

Inside temperature this morning was 59F degrees in the frig and 49F in the
freezer (outside temperature is about 70F).  

Both dial settings are on cold (mid range) where they were always left.
There is no on/off switch that we know about.
Electricity is working (fan and lights are working).

Fan is blowing full time (dunno if it always did that).
http://i.cubeupload.com/dQOTKL.jpg

Coils are at room temperature and are dusty:
http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg

Compressor may not be turning on (how can we tell)?
http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg

No reason to suspect icemaker water supply yet:
http://i.cubeupload.com/myOvgH.jpg

Top of compressor is hot to the touch but not so hot as to burn (but pretty
hot otherwise):
http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg

We hear a humming noise kick on every five minutes for about 10 or 20
seconds and then a click when it shuts off:
http://tinypic.com/r/e6abk7/9

The only things new are the humming noise, and the fact that the
refrigerator and freezer aren't working.

First aim is to figure out how this thing works.
I was expecting to see a "motor" for the black compressor "bulb" but there
is no motor I can see - but the top of the black compressor "bulb" is hot
to the touch - but the coils are not.

I think the solenoid at the compressor "bulb" is what is making the noise.
Any debugging advice?

Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
Danny D.  wrote:
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  Might be the start cap on the compressor unit - what you're calling a  
"bulb" is a hermetically sealed compressor with the motor inside . The click  
you're hearing is probably the overload relay .

--  
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Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
On 9/07/2016 7:40 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
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+1

Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 07:43:45 +0800, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

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Does this 20-second video sound like what you'd expect if the start cap
wasn't working?

http://tinypic.com/r/e6abk7/9

Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 18:40:55 -0500, Terry Coombs wrote:

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Is this black rectangle the start cap?
http://i.cubeupload.com/aOLfge.jpg

I disconnected the spring (what is it there for?).
I disconnected the wiring.
I tried to pull the black cap outward.
I tried to pull the gray base outward.

Neither would budge.
Have you removed them before?

Is there a trick to removing them?

Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
On 7/8/2016 9:26 PM, Danny D.  wrote:
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To keep these parts from coming off.

Pull straight out from compressor. Might need to
pry with slotted screw driver. Wiggle them back
and forth while pulling.


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Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
On 7/8/2016 9:26 PM, Danny D. wrote:
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Yes


The spring is there to hold the cap in place.  It is simply plugged into  
the overload/relay body.  See:
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/kenmore-refrigerator-parts/2264017/0046/106/model-10659422801/0582/0165000.html

It's not clear how the base is fastened, but you probably won't have to  
remove it anyhow.

Bob

Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
On 7/8/2016 7:22 PM, Danny D.  wrote:
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Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay
on the compressor. This is considered "sealed
system". If you have the owners manual, see
how long is the sealed system warranty. Probably
five years, so you're out of warranty.

If it's out of warranty, are you any good with
electrical repairs? Please write back, and we'll
continue the discussion.

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Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating

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I would add that you should unplug the unit until you figure out what is  
wrong. In the current condition the OC protection is greatly stressed and  
will not last long.




Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
On 7/8/2016 8:31 PM, tom wrote:
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You are so, so right. The compressor will
eventually over heat and might burn out.

Thank you, well said.

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Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 19:47:38 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

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Thanks for the advice.
The last thing I fixed with your help was the washing machine, who had an  
F28/F11 which meant the motor control board was fried.  

Before that, it was a non-operational furnace (bad thermistor), and before  
that there were a host of things, most of which are working just fine now.

I have the frig unplugged to cool the black compressor "sealed system" down  
(right now the black top of the "sealed system" is warm to the touch but  
not hot).

A few questions of what I should expect, since I'm not sure that I  
understand how the thing works yet.

Of course, I know that decompressing fluid freon (or whatever it uses) to a  
gas makes the freon cold which makes the pipes that run through the  
refrigerator cold, and then recompressing that recirculating gas back to a  
liquid creates heat which is blown off by the fan - but I don't know the  
mechanics of what I should expect (e.g., what pumps the fluid/gas through  
the system? Gravity?).

So I have questions if I may ask...

0. Are there 3 things inside the "sealed unit"?
a. Motor
b. Compressor
c. Solenoid

1. Is the sealed unit a replaceable part?
http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg(same pic as before)

2. Why would the top of the black sealed unit be hot to the touch?

3. Is there a motor overheat safety switch that may have tripped?

4. Are those black coils in the bottom supposed to be warm or cold?
http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg(same pic as before)

5. I don't see motion, but the vibrating can be felt on the solenoid on the
OUTSIDE of the sealed unit (it may be translating from inside though). What
is the purpose of that solenoid on the outside of the sealed unit?
http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg(same pic as before)

In an hour or so, when the "sealed unit" has cooled down, I'll plug it back  
in and report back.

Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
On 7/8/2016 8:49 PM, Danny D.  wrote:
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CY: Glad to be some help. Any time (well, figuratively
speaking).

Quoted text here. Click to load it

CY: The big black thing in the back is a compressor.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

CY: No, the motor and compressor are inside. The start relay (and some  
have a relay and a capacitor) outside the sealed unit. The relay and cap  
should never contact refrigerant. That said, the company probably  
considers the relay and cap to be part of the sealed system.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

CY: Yes. Though, it's often not cost effective. Requires refrigerant  
pump, brazing, electrical, and more than that. Takes about three hours.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

CY: The black sealed unit contains electric windings for the motor. The  
unit keeps trying to start the compressor. Amp draw, turns the electric  
watts into heat.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

CY: Yes, that combination amp and temp safety switch is what gives you  
the repeated hum click.

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CY: When the refrig is running, warm. They should NEVER get cold.

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CY: The compressor has two windings. Start, and run. The relay supplies  
power to the start winding, and then later power to the run winding.


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CY: I'm guessing it will do exactly the same hum click routine.
It's late on the east coast, I'm going to bed.
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Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
On 7/8/2016 8:49 PM, Danny D.  wrote:
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As a Kenmore, you may be able to buy OEM parts, but
if it were my unit, I'd use a universal hard start
kit. Seeing as how I carry them in my vehicle and
use the universal kits at work.

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Re: Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating
On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 00:49:13 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D. "

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The sealed unit contains at least a motor and compressor. I dunno
about a solenoid. It gets hot when the motor can't start because
instead of the electrical energy being converted into mechanical
energy which is then distributed throughout the fridge system it is
converted directly into heat. The reason you can't replace the sealed
unit is because it is connected to the system that circulates the
refrigerant and cutting the copper tubes will let out the refrigerant
and lube oil and let in air. So be careful when working around the
copper tubes. If they are bent enough to constrict the flow the fridge
won't work properly and if one breaks the only thing you can do is
either get someone with the proper equipment to fix it or buy another
fridge.
Eric

Re: Debug advice and a question for danny D
On 7/8/2016 7:47 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
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Since you missed the question the first time.

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Re: Debug advice and a question for danny D
Stormin Mormon wrote:
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Classic signs of fucked compressor.



Re: Debug advice and a question for danny D
On 7/9/2016 2:20 PM, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
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Says you. I've worked on more than a few of
these, and the compressor was fine.


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Re: Debug advice and a question for danny D

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You doubt the opinion of someone who spent his life hanging fire extinguishers on walls?

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Re: Debug advice and a question for danny D
On 7/9/2016 4:49 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
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Not that Danny reads my posts, you see.

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Re: Debug advice and a question for danny D
On 7/12/2016 11:36 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
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Not that Danny reads my posts, you see.
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