Cloud? IoT? How to start

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
I'd like to start learning the modern paradigm of IoT and Cloud.  My  
first impression is that they are "empty words" without a precise  
meaning: you can fill the "word" as you want.

I want to start from a real simple application.
I have some Internet-connected embedded boards that I want to control by  
remote with my smartphone connected to Internet.

At first I wanted to connect the smartphone directly to the remote node,  
but I think this isn't the good and modern approach. You need to  
implement a server in the node and you need to have a free channel to  
the server (usually the server running in the node can't be contacted  
from the outside, except you change configurations of network devices).

For sure it's simpler to have a client on the remote node that connects  
to a Cloud server. Even the smartphone connect to the Cloud server.
I think most of those kind of systems use HTTP/HTTPS as the protocol to  
transfer data.

Now the big question. I know I can create myself the Cloud server, but I  
think there are many ready-to-use solutions. Do you suggest something?
At the moment I want to experiment only, so I have only 1-10 nodes with  
just a few data. However I'd like to study flexible solutions that are  
ready to upgrade in the future to more nodes and more data.

Are there some Cloud services available for embedded platforms (IoT)?  
They should have a simple API to implement in the node.

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start

[snip]

Quoted text here. Click to load it


IFTTT? MQTT?

Are those the kinds of things you're looking for?

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Before you go ANY further read this short article and think about  
security first

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/03/16/maker_of_hackable_smart_
vibrator_will_pay_3_5_million_settlement_to_users.html?utm_content=inf_
10_2641_2&wpsrc=socialedge&tse_id=INF_56152ff00e6e11e79b1a07d5f3e08d7d

Yes it is a long link but in some ways it is funny

IoT and Cloud is just naming some random collection of protocols that  
have existed before.

There is a cartoon/meme you can find out there

    "There is no cloud
     it is just somebody else's computer"

Which is why I refer to IoT as LoT (Lawyer of Things)

--  
Paul Carpenter          | snipped-for-privacy@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/ PC Services
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On 3/24/2017 8:04 AM, Paul wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I know someone who is marketing a product where much of the processing  
is done in the "cloud".  He feels that somehow this will make the  
software immune from ever needing to be ported as OS revisions change  
and hardware is upgraded.  Really?  Is that really possible?  At some  
point won't the environment hosting software require maintenance no  
matter what your host is (assuming they upgrade on a regular basis)?

--  

Rick C

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On 25/03/17 19:35, rickman wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

The key is to have everything specified in terms of
an API, and to program against that API and only
that API. A good API is far more valuable than any
implementation.

It can make it a lot easier, /provided/ the architecture
and implementation are /very/ carefully thought through.
The poster child proof-of-concepts are the telecom system
and Amazon Web Services.

None of which changes the concept that cloud processing
is the triumphant re-invention of timesharing systems,
and that it means your data and processing is done on
machines owned by another company.

I remember the relief people felt when IBM PCs arrived,
because then they were no longer held hostage by the
timesharing bureaux.

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
rickman wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Beats me. If it's an interpreted language, then perhaps - although
they seem to have more tools thrash.

--  
Les Cargill

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Right, and at home he's got a paddock full of unicorns that fart
rainbows.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

As long as the hosting company never changes anything (or goes out of
business), hardware never fails, software never needs security
updates, protoocols never change, requirements never change, and so
on.

IOW, no.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes.

You're just pushing some of the maintenance work off on sombebody else
and paying them to do it.  It's still fallible appplications running
on fallible OSes on fallible hardware that's all built and maintained
by fallible people.  [The _hope_ is that "those people" are better at
it than "these people".  In some cases that may be true.  I'm not
convinced it's usually possible to predict which cases those are.]


But now you've made yourself even more dependent on network
connections -- which are (surprise!) fallible.

--
Grant





Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:04:31 -0000, Paul

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Over here Siemens is advertising their household appliances by the
remote control features :-)

After all, the Stuxnet exploit was first used on Siemens systems :-)



Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On 3/25/2017 1:20 PM, snipped-for-privacy@downunder.com wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I think the problem with IoT is that vendors are JUST pitching it
as "remote control".  IMO, there's very little "value added" for most
devices if you just allow the user to control it from a distant location.

(Do you really need to control your washing machine, dishwasher, irrigation
system, coffee maker, etc. from afar?)

But, the real "value added" requires a fair bit more development effort
and "selling"/marketing.

E.g., instead of letting me monitor video from my home via an (insecure! :> )
web app at some remote location, why not have some "smarts" in the
cloud service whereby *it* is monitoring the video and alerting
me to motion detected in the frame?  Instead of letting me turn on
the water for my rose bushes (but NOT the cactus) from my office, why
not make note of the weather in my neighborhood and decide that their
transpirational losses are likely to be excessively high, today, and
turn the water on *for* me?

I.e., provide intelligent AGENTS instead of just a glorified DynDNS service.

Quoted text here. Click to load it


Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On 25/03/17 20:20, snipped-for-privacy@downunder.com wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Today's heavily advertised "solution looking for a problem":
https://ring.com/

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On 3/25/2017 11:49 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Actually, there have been several "news stories" (typ. "filler" pieces)
here involving this product.  Likely because it generates video (which
is always a boon to TV broadcasters) and is usually sensational
(folks stealing packages off front porches, attempted home invasions, etc.)

Of course, really only applies to a very small portion of the population
(or residences).  And, probably relatively easy to defeat when/if it becomes
more widely used (e.g., wear a mask, whack it with a baseball bat, approach
from "off screen", jam wireless, blind with overbright/laser light source,
interfere with home's internet connection, etc.)

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On 26/03/17 09:20, Don Y wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Don't forget the (metaphorical) killer: company goes out
of business or switches to incompatible products.

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On 3/26/2017 1:17 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I am surprised at how oblivious people seem to be to this sort
of thing -- including corporate customers (i.e., trusting
their data and business to The Cloud)!  Either they don't
seem to think it can happen *or* they think something will
magically rescue/protect them from this...  :<

Would you buy a $70 light bulb if it required the continued
operation/availability of a remote server for you to use it?  :<

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
says...
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Unfortunately most people especially the higher you go up the  
mamangement chain have long ago been hyptonised by style over
substance, or soundbites or marketing hype.

Too many people believe in the "Magic Technology Bullet" to fix
anything.

--  
Paul Carpenter          | snipped-for-privacy@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/ PC Services
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On 3/26/2017 4:46 AM, Paul wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I think Manglement is just being opportunistic:  hoping/wanting
someone to make *their* problem(s) go away.  Easier to buy in to
something and LATER blame that something for not being what it
*should* have been than to actually tackle the (THEIR) problem
themselves!

      "I trusted <them> ... and <they> let me down (implicit in
      this is that it is not *my* fault... I should be absolved
      even from my poor assessment of their trustworthiness!)"

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On 26/03/17 19:31, Don Y wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Half right.

They change jobs every 2 years, which means...

If it worked, they say "look what I started/finished".
If it fails, they say "I was handed a crock", or "the
other guy turned it into a crock".

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On 3/26/2017 1:29 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

That's not true of all.  E.g., folks who own their own businesses.
I noticed that they genuinely wanted *me* to assume the responsibility
(and risk!) for projects that they couldn't wrap their heads around.
They really wanted to be able to walk away thinking the problem was
"off their desk".

Of course, as it was their money (typically), they ALSO wanted a
successful outcome!  But, what they wanted more (in the short-term)
was NOT to have to worry about it.

A colleague once pointedly asked me, "don't you want your clients
to succeed?".  And, was chagrined when I replied, "Sure!  If they
are pursuing a realistic goal.  I don't want that success to come
on *my* back (because they underestimate the cost, time, complexity,
problems, etc.).  *I* don't want to be responsible for making a
success of something that is inherently a dog..."

Best advice to give someone new to the business is to know when to
walk away from what *appears* to be a "lucrative" job (lots of
billable time) but that you can't envision a successful result.

[I've known lots of contractors/consultants who've lined their pockets
with failed projects:  "I told you about my HOURLY RATE..."  And,
why I much prefered fixed cost projects (because I could see a defined
goal at the onset and know it could be met -- freeing me to move on
to something else with a "win" in my column!)]

Quoted text here. Click to load it


Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
Il 26/03/2017 08:49, Tom Gardner ha scritto:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Just a curiosity.

The video doorbell connects to home WiFi network. Of course you need to  
select the SSID and write a password to make a WiFi connection. The  
setup guide says this process is done using a smart device (smartphone),  
after pushing a button in the doorbell to put it in Setup mode.

How does it work? How the smartphone sends the WiFi configuration to the  
doorbell that isn't connected to Internet yet (because it isn't  
configured yet)?
Does it use a local connection (Bluetooth, NFC, ...), even if it isn't  
explicit?

Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start

Quoted text here. Click to load it

IoT:  

  Take a bunch of small devices with no need for internet access.  Add
  internet access with tons of security holes.  Set up some dodgy web
  sites and write some broken smartphone apps to talk to the "things".

Cloud:

  Put all your data on somebody else's computer and let _them_ lose
  it.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

--  
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I have many CHARTS
                                  at               and DIAGRAMS..
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start
On 3/24/2017 7:41 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

IoT doesn't require access to The Internet.  Remember, *an* internet
just refers to them being able to talk (i.e., to each other).

As to whether they *need* that ability... that depends on the functionality
you want to give them.  Does your automobile *need* a radio?  heater?  etc.?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

A closed internet is less vulnerable than one that extends into *the* Internet.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

*Or*, let them extract whatever THEY consider to be of value for their
own needs/gains -- often implicitly at *your* expense!  (of course, they
will try to convince you that this is to your *benefit* using some
perverse logic)

Quoted text here. Click to load it



Site Timeline