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fast breadboard, MC10EP08

I was wondering how an MC10EP08 (4 GHz XOR gate) behaves with a slow input, specifically sine waves from 1 MHz up until it quits. Old 10KH type ECL gates made decent analog amplifiers, but the EP parts are much faster and probably have more voltage gain, so I don't know what they might do.

So I built this:

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Yes, it is barely possible to scrunch two SMA cables onto the output connectors. Barely.

Now I have to pull rank on a junior staff member and swipe the big ole Wayne Kerr RF signal generator and test it.

I could front this with an Analog Devices fast comparator, which has hysteresis and differential ECL or CML outputs, but they are expensive and need more power supplies.

I really need another RF signal generator.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin
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Doesn't the input SMA connector short that bias node to ground? Looks a bit like it would on the photo.

Anyway, do you have any particular recommendation on what to watch out for in terms of ergonomics for SMD adapter layout for that style of breadboarding? I might include a few for narrow-pitch packages with my next PCB order?

? David

Reply to
David Nadlinger

Yes. That took a few minutes to discover. Actually, it worked with the bias node at ground, but it did need a lot of signal swing. A minute with the Dremel fixed that.

That green thing is a Bellin smt adapter, sliced up a bit to make the mouse bites. It would have been better to piggy-back a nice layout onto a PCB order, but that would take a week or so.

I often do a 4-layer proto board with a lot of test circuits that we can chop up.

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My suggestions:

A ground plane and bypass caps are good.

Some grounded mounting holes. 2-56 screws are good power/scope grounds and power connections. Small boards can be bolted to a heavy aluminum plate so cables and such don't drag them off the bench.

Plan for straight-line shear cuts to separate sections. Draw lines on the silk for cuts.

Label every section so you can remember what it is after it's chopped up. We assign a drawing number to every proto board. Document everything, including test results.

As you say, add a bunch of adapters for unusual IC footprints: US8, tiny TSOPs, like that. Include bypass caps on probable pins.

Connector adapters are useful. Ditto short transmission lines.

Thermal experiments can be useful too.

> 
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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

A PTS1000 is super good medicine.

Your protos are so Hollywood. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

Looks pretty. I just breadboarded a TI LED driver SOT-232-5. Not pretty, Exacto knifed it, but it works well.

Cheers

Reply to
Martin Riddle

Only incidentally related - is the 80s-era Wayne Kerr 6425 LF impedance analyzer a good boat-anchor purchase?

e.g.

I'd sure like one of the fancy modern Keysight units but I don't have ~22 grand handy at the moment

Reply to
bitrex

1 GHz. I'd like to go to at least 3, better yet 5.

Trumpian! As the National Lampoon used to say, "Good taste isn't everything."

It seems to oscillate a bit at 1 MHz and low sinewave amplitude. It's pretty at higher frequencies and amplitude. I'll quantify the gain.

I might hack in a bit of hysteresis, on pin 2, and see what happens. External hysteresis gets dicey when the signal frequency starts to push the prop delay!

Why is there no Eclips Lite schmitt trigger?

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
Reply to
John Larkin

Wire a few in series. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

I like the way you draw schematics as if it was the layout. But you must have drilled those non-circular holes with the same auger bit.

Reply to
Tom Del Rosso

I would have expected to see some (wired) via's to a GND backside, especially on the area at top right and close to the SMA's and near the chip carrier. Or is this just single sided base material?

Arie

Reply to
Arie de Muynck

It's copperclad both sides. The bolts and the edge-launch SMA connectors tie things together pretty well. The SMAs solder on both sides.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
Reply to
John Larkin

Dental burr in my Dremel is the universal tool.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
Reply to
John Larkin

I now have a DC/low-frequency LT Spice model of the front-end of the Eclips Plus MC10EP08, if anyone is ever interested [1]. I'll verify that against my breadboard next week. I might eventually expand that into a full device model.

It occurs to me that I can use one EP08 as both an input comparator and as a signal multiplexer.

The stuff I want to know really should be on the data sheet, or an appnote. Onsemi AND8009 sort of helps.

[1] when I google things like this, I tend to find my own posts from the past, in google groups or one of the copycat sites that use us for content. 
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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
Reply to
John Larkin

I kluged in some hysteresis and it seems to work nicely.

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Still gotta nab an RF generator and check it over the full freq span.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

Yeah but imagine showing your proto made out of low end copper clad to the same customer.

It's gold baby! :^)

John L, If you make some sort of micro strip out of copper clad and copper clad with gold on top, can you tell the difference? I guess I'm thinking TDR-wise. (Of which I know almost nothing... if you made a video/ white broad thing about TDR I would watch it, and recommend it to my all my buds on SED. :^)

George H.

Reply to
George Herold

I've shown, and shipped, gold dremel'd things like this to customers, and the reaction has been very positive. I think the gold helps; copper boards like this get ugly in a week or so.

I don't think I'd see any difference on a TDR, bare copper vs gold. I think that most of the loss is on the bottom side of a microstrip trace.

I want to be rich, but I don't want to be famous.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

Or take your gigglehertz, split it & delay one of them. Feed into a fast XOR...

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

There are small box diode-based frequency doublers.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
Reply to
John Larkin

Where do you buy the boards?

Reply to
Tom Gardner

I have one of our regular PCB houses, Cirexx I think, plate me up a couple square feet now and then, and I shear it up. I have seen gold-plated FR4 on ebay.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
Reply to
John Larkin

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