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Re: Google releases new programing language.


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is go so badly broken that it doesn't use the "#line" preprocessor
directive to enable source level debugging? or are you making shit up?




Re: Google releases new programing language.


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Interesting, but missing was a For each,
which is a rather glaring omission on something that hopes to improve
what is already out there ?

No examples, and no EXE sizes listed
( it does create standalone EXEs, right ? )

I also liked Microsoft's ASMl language... on the topic of research-lab-
languages...

-jg


Re: Google releases new programing language.


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Looking at the examples in the link above, I see
range might do this

  for c :3D% range self.chars {...

- but their keyword list omitted mention of this under for..

Seems a confusing use of 3D% and :3D%  ?
Are there rules to that, or does either work ?

-jg

Re: Google releases new programing language.


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There are rules.  := is short-hand for variable declaration, typing *and*
initial assignment.  = is just assignment.  If you're keen on syntactic
sugar, it seems like a fairly well-thought-out way to avoid quite a lot
of boilerplate.

Don't forget the multiple result mechanism: I think that might go quite a
way towards making up for the lack of exceptions.  Not a fan of
exceptions myself.  The multiple returns means that one donesn't have to
pass results back through a reference argument just to get the error code
(common C idiom), or designate a range of result values as "errors".

--
Andrew

Re: Google releases new programing language.


Andrew Reilly schrieb:
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This "multiple return" reminds me of LUA, it's a very handy feature
-- Dirk

Re: Google releases new programing language.


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Ah, yes, that's nifty...

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Yes, noticed  that - a nice idea.

-jg

Re: Google releases new programing language.



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Of course not. It's a nice symmetry. Previously one could only get
confused about the order the parameters. Now scope for confusion about
the order of results has been added.

Sylvia.

Re: Google releases new programing language.


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Great, there seems to be world wide shortage of
Computer Programming Languages.

But kinda just looks like Microsoft + Borland + C + Pascal + Perl



Re: Google releases new programing language.
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:)

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Yes, which could make it a good teaching tool ?

Anyone tried the IDE ? (it does have one, right?)

-jg

Re: Google releases new programing language.
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It's a *programming language*.  Why would a programming language have an
IDE?

Perhaps what you are trying to ask is whether there are syntax
highlighting setups available for commonly used IDEs such as Eclipse,
KDevelope, (x)emacs, etc.

And maybe you are also asking about the state of the debugger - does it
have one, is it based on gdb, or does it "speak" gdb and can thus be
used with existing gdb front-ends?

I don't know the answer to either of these, but it helps to ask the
right questions.

Re: Google releases new programing language.

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Where have you been? I think an Integrated Development Environment is
now essential for system development in any language. The poster is
right to expect one or more that supports Go. It is difficult to list
the features that you should expect from an IDE without knowing the
programming language but Sun have a (Java oriented) list of features
to look for in an IDE here -
<http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/tools/intro.html>.

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He asked one of the right questions. Most text editors can do syntax
highlighting. Using a separate front end to gdb is hardly
"integrated".  

Re: Google releases new programing language.
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It's a matter of choice.  I use a dozen different C compilers with
almost as many target processors, plus several other programming
languages.  The last thing I need with a new compiler or new language is
a new IDE to go with it.

There are three ways to work when programming:

1) You can use an IDE that came with your compiler + tools
2) You can use a generic IDE with whatever compiler and tools you want
3) You can use a simpler editor with command line tools

Using a compiler/toolchain specific IDE is fine if you do most of your
work using it, or if it has a great deal of added value (such as a
graphics design system for guis, or RAD tools, or whatever).  It's also
great if you want a simple "all-in-one" system and don't want to think
about your tools.  But typically, these IDEs are limited and inflexible,
and every one is different - making your job a lot harder if you work
with more than one toolchain or language.

Generic IDEs like Eclipse are a better choice for many uses.  You get a
powerful editor, project management, source code versioning control,
build management, debugging, etc.  Language-specific syntax
highlighting, refactoring, etc., is done by plugins or syntax
highlighting files.  If your development process fits standard models
neatly, you can use built-in build management, otherwise the IDE will
call external "make" tools.

Some people (including me) prefer a simpler editor and use command-line
tools such as explicitly running "make" commands.  I find that gives me
the fastest and most flexible development process, and gives me a fairly
consistent environment for my different toolchains.

No sane toolchain vendor would make a new IDE unless they have very
specific requirements, or overwhelmingly many special features.  In
commercial toolchain development, the trend is towards Eclipse for new
IDEs - many vendors are even dropping their existing IDEs and moving to
Eclipse in newer versions.  You can expect that sooner or later an
Eclipse plugin for "go" will turn up, as well as an emacs mode and, if
the language becomes popular, plugins and syntax highlighter files for
other common IDEs and editors.

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A few of these features are programming language specific, but most are
very general - and are providing by generic IDEs.

I am not saying you should not use, or want to use, an IDE for "go".
I'm just saying that you should not expect a compiler toolchain vendor
to provide a specific IDE - it is far from necessary for using the
language, and would be a big waste of effort.

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Re: Google releases new programing language.

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If you download the Go source code you can already find syntax
highlighting scripts for vim, emacs and xcode in the /misc directory.

Re: Google releases new programing language.

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Agreed. I responded to your post only because I thought your sentence
below implied that the poster asked the "wrong" question and I happen
to prefer the posters choice to yours.
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Re: Google releases new programing language.
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You are being overly polite - I didn't /imply/ that he asked the wrong
questions, I /said/ he asked the wrong questions!  But on reading my own
post, it was unreasonable of me to word it that strongly - rather, I
should have said he could have asked /better/ questions, that are more
likely to have positive answers and that discuss tools that are more
useful to the language's target audience.

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Re: Google releases new programing language.


IDE can mean two things.
Integrated Development environment, and Integrated Debug Environment -
many use the former to mean 'an editor'.

A syntax highlighting editor, is a very small amount of work, and the
language should be able to be added to most good editors, quite
easily.

However, good DEBUG is very different, and if someone wants a NEW
language to take off, it had BETTER be easy to get up to speed on.
Simple really.

Good debug is rather hard to simply bolt-on-later.

Look around at some of the smarter systems out there :

Microsoft have free tools, with very good (seamless)integration of key
parts
* Syntax editor
* Data inspector, including find declaration
* Variable watch
* Breakpoints

Same with Lazarus - A wide choice of languages, all
with usable systems. (not stone soup)

 Data inspection and variable watch, are rather tightly linked to the
language definition, and the compiler and object files itself.

 So, that task really needs to be done by whoever wants the language
to be widely used - if you want it done quickly, and right.

 Sure, start with something that already works on another language,
but there are enough new features in Go, that a lot of detail work is
needed.

 Of course, if their only target is the depths of research labs, and
those happy with the command line....

-jg

Re: Google releases new programing language.



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What do you mean by and IDE, aka what functions does it need to have?
Several editors do bracket matching, keyword highlighting, etc.
Is that enough?>

Re: Google releases new programing language.


Op Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:26:04 +0100 schreef terryc  
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You're talking about editor features.  An IDE provides (or should provide)  
project management, toolchain calling and debug support as well.


--
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Re: Google releases new programing language.



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Don't forget command line argument obfuscation.  That seems to be very
important.  That, and include paths.  Impenetrable.

Cheers,

--
Andrew

Re: Google releases new programing language.


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Great!
<sarcasm>
   We really needed another one.
</sarcasm>


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