Re: Google Groups

Straw-man. Some manufacturers said that they did no testing on transmission as they were not required to do such testing for approval. They had plenty of other tests to perform for approval which were performed.

I spoke of it in one post, never before. Your comment that I'm trotting it out suggests you don't like the truth.

I've had plenty of vaccinations in my life I'm not anti-vax. I had 3 covid jabs. However, the experimental vaccine has done damage to a lot of people and I've not seen any data which proves it did anything good. It may have done but I've not seen it.

All fine, for you. My wife had developed a condition which is a classic illness from the vaccine damage list. Is it not okay for me to have a different opinion and choose differently?

Please show me evidence of that. I would love to see it to help me decide. I don't believe agenda pushers like the media any more.

That would be fine except we were lied to massively and thousands of people lost their jobs on the false story that the vaccine stopped transmission by stopping infection. That was a massive lie, they had no evidence to back the claims.

Bob.

I hope that is true.

Evidence?

Bob.

Yes that would be fine but authorities the world over made claims you don't get covid if you're vaccinated. then had to make video statements insisting they never said any such thing.

Bob.

Evidence?

I've seen none.

I have seen plenty of evidence of vaccine damage.

Bob.

the scientific, rather than the art student, narrative.

The initial trials showed reduced severity in those infected.

Post vaccination we had huge numbers of people infected with a massively reduced mortality rate compared to the pre vaccination waves.

I don't see any reason to doubt this.

Oh dear. I'm not anti-vax, I've had plenty.

Forcing people to have medical treatment is evil and unforgivable.

I am open minded about MMR, I simply do not know. I do know that when I was at school in large city schools there was only 1 child I ever saw that had "odd" behaviour. Now it is so much more common and plenty of children are now medicated for their behaviour. Something has changed. You tell me what.

Because that was the claim at the time. Getting vaccinated prevents you getting covid. Do I really have to spend time finding the famous video of this?

Oh yes, I agree, that's what I thought before covid.

I don't think I've seen that before covid.

I don't think so. I know Main Stream Media is suppressing this massively and Parliament will not listen or debate it. It's like they're frightened of a can of worms. However, more and more mps are listening.

You have to be careful who you take seriously on the net and see over time how what they say stands up or not. From what you've said I don't think you're fully aware of how serious the vaccine damage situation really is. At the very least, have you not looked at the

Yes thousands of excess deaths that the media does not talk about at all, exactly the opposite to covid where deaths was front and centre. Sorry mate I think you trust main stream media far too much.

I would ask you to look wider MSM is mostly propaganda.

Anyway no point in continuing to argue, not going to achieve anything.

Bob.

Speak for yourself, I was given Vaxzevria. That was all I had before I caught Covid the first time. I had the other ones later, but that was probably a mistake.

I would commend AstraZeneca for trying to offer the vaccine cheaply.

Of all the people to write something like that you were the last I expected. I know you are aware that main stream media pushes propaganda not truth, I know you are.

Surely you remember that we had professors of serious note like Sunetra Gupta who were completely shut out of the conversation because politicians had decided what the truth was going to be and only allowed doctors who agreed with the narrative to speak. Perhaps you were unaware of the group that formed of viral experts from across the globe offering an alternative view which was shut out.

The models were from that well known Prof Neil Ferguson otherwise know as pants down because he didn't believe his own model when it came to his sexual desires and broke the rules.

This man is and was at the time notorious for massive exaggeration of deaths from every virus that got near us. He had form for this kind of nonsense and then some. He was always massively WRONG. But his ridiculous models were very useful for the narrative.

We both know from ACC how models only reflect the opinion or desire of their creator, they are propaganda tools, nothing more.

You also seem unaware that many deaths attributed to covid were really from other things like the end of life drug, I'd have to look the name given to many elderly in care homes. Or that ventilators were in themselves the cause of deaths.

But congratulations. I've never seen such an expert job of air brushing inconvenient truths.

Surprisingly you too seem to be a victim of the media.

No point in arguing further.

Bob.

Nowhere that I ever saw. The expectations were clear from the start as was the degree of certainty in them.

It has to be one that *they* all understand *and* think they can sell to their voters.

One of the best pieces of evidence for the effectiveness of the Covid vaccines came from shortly before it stopped being news, with Ireland at 90% vaccinated the Covid wards were 50/50 vaccinated and not. IOW you were nine times less likely to wind up in hospital if you were vaccinated than if not.

The total numbers of people with bad side effects were tiny compared to the vast numbers of people vaccinated.

Well its all a bit hard to be sure. Science is like that.

It could be the man tearing newspapers up and throwing them out of the train windows to 'keep the elephants down'. What Elephants? That's how effective it is....

Or it could be that the vaccines have done what they were intended to do, taken the edge off Covid until what's left is a population with moderate resistance and mutated strains that are not much worse than the flu.

In the end we can't know the truth, because we don't have any unvaccinated populations to act as control groups.

All we know is that the human race has muddled through to the position where Covid is a minor, not a major threat, and we can all go on living.

I've had every jab going, may or may not have had Covid so mildly that I never distinguished it from a touch of flu or a slight cold, but a friend of mine is in hospital dying essentially of old age, but what took him over the edge was Covid the other month.

It was the last straw, Now he has essentially given up the struggle.

It's probably not worth getting hot under the collar about.

Life is, in the final analysis a strange mystery anyway, and getting upset that we don't understand it at all, is why they invented religion.

"Its OK, God knows what's he is doing¨.

As against "Its not OK! God knows WHAT *they* are doing".

In a very real sense, it is your choice what to believe, and in the absence of evidence one way or another, why not believe, pro tem, in what makes life a bit more comfortable.

I guess I prefer to believe that the powers that be are a bunch of paranoid bumbling incompetents rather than some Edwardian Evil Genius like Professor Moriarty or Fu Manchu...

I mean. Look at Biden. Or Trump for that matter. Not the sharpest knives in the drawer are they?

Or Bill Gates. Got a lot of power, but is he a genius? Not really.

Remember the world is whatever *is* the case, but peoples lives and their choices are governed by what they *believe* to be the case.

And the mum whose kid dies of German measles because she *believed* MMR was dangerous, is a victim of that belief.

I've known people who survived Polio - just. At my first school was one such. I had no problem in getting that vaccine, I can tell you.

Nor with smallpox vaccinations, which I was one of the ones I got. Along with BCG for tuberculosis.

I got ill with measles, German measles and scarlet fever and mumps, and extremely unpleasant they were too.

I missed diptheria, thank heavens.

Perhaps you are younger, and don't remember an age where people of the previous generation died like flies from raging bacterial infections, which the new fangled antibiotics stopped stone dead, or raging viral infections, for which the only known remedy was quality nursing and isolation. And which often left the patient damaged for life, if not dead.

Slowly we developed vaccines for the viral infections, and they are now a standard part of childhood. And the proof of the pudding is that we no longer have epidemics of childhood diseases. Or at leats we didn't before parents were scared into not letting their kids get vaccinated, and the influx of immigrants brought all the old diseases back.

Believe what ever you want, in the absence of certain knowledge, which is the human condition. And the reason for religion, which promises a certainty it surely cannot deliver. But, if believed in. makes you feel a lot better.

You keep saying that. I don't recall any in my own experience.

Didn't Donald Trump tell you to drink bleach or something?

And when did you start to believe in 'authorities' unquestioningly anyway?

I gave up on that at the age of around 7...

I got the Astra one the first time, then I think a Pfizer and a Moderna.

They rejected the Astra one based on the idiocy that it 'wasn't 100% effective' Well neither were the expensive ones, as we have been discussing. The ArtStudent narrative was created by Big Pharma to discredit competitors.

Yes, because I have no recollection of that *ever being said*.

In the UK it was all about *less* likely, *less* severe. Which is why we still had more lockdown after vaccination. As other mutations cropped up.

Sunetra was significantly wrong, in that she underestimated the infection fatality rate. I think with hindsight the lockdowns were bad, but without hindsight they were the right thing to do.

Hopefully, for the future, politicians have come up with plans to protect the elderly, so the rest of society can continue to function with the need for lockdowns, if the same sort of disease strikes again. Hopefully they have also come up with plans for different scenarios too.

The models were approximately right.

Ferguson had already been infected with Covid by the time he was caught with his pants down. At that time, with few mutations, there was a period of post infection immunity, in scientific terms he actions were of negligible risk to himself, and very small risk to society. A bit like the parties at number 10.

I can't drop my hand on the video showing a host of world leaders doing this at the moment, it may not still be available.

As it happened last night on GB News this came up. I wasn't watching it but it's linked from my twitter feed.

Don't be silly.

Exactly my point, the media and leaders as always LIED.

Bob.