The UK isn't Israel.
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*You sound reasonable......time to up my medication
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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The BBC had little or no hand in "designing" PAL. The original NTSC proposal /was/ PAL. Want proof?
So the PAL patent is owned by a US company?
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*Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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You mean "was". And there would have been multiple patents.
The PAL system was publically described in an "Electronics" article circa
1951, which I have in the garage. It was given as the NTSC proposal. It used phase alternation, and equal-bandwidth R-Yand B-Y primaries.It was presumably patented, so I assume someone would have had to pay royalties at least through the mid-60s.
I well-remember reading -- many years ago -- that European TV-distribution systems suffered from significant non-linear phase errors (while American systems did not), and this was the principal reason for adopting phase alternation. I have no source, though.
Actually compared to the 1970s Israel is nothing like it was in the 1970s, although it looks like the current UK government is trying to recreate them.
Geoff.
-- Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.
The tapes were fropm all over Europe.
Image Orthicons? That figures.
-- You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's Teflon coated.
It took about six minutes to set up the camera for the ambient lighting. The rest of the mechanical and electrical setup was very stable, usually only requiring annual touchup, or a full setup when installing new Plumbicons.
Sure, but they are designed to be used by total idiots. They don't have the contrast ratio, or other positive characteristics of Plumbicon cameras. What killed Plumbicons was their size of the camera, and the $14,000+ price tag on a new set of matched tubes. Use a set of $50,000 lenses on a TK 46 and you'll know what I'm talking about.
Our control room used 25 to 30 inch monitors. Underscan was switchable. A mask was used with lines to show the hot area for cheap, overscanned TV sets. Tell us, how many US TV stations did you work at as an engineer? How many state of the art NTSC studios have you built? How many years of maintaining a commercial US TV station?
-- You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's Teflon coated.
Don't care where they were from - you can't judge any system using domestic tapes of those days. I'm beginning to wonder about your personal standards if you think you can.
Just when do you think colour cameras stopped using them? The plumbicon wasn't invented until '60.
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*Dance like nobody's watching.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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I know. I just wanted to highlight the political aspects of video compatibility. If I had time, I would have ranted a bit about the FCC decision to go with 8VSB instead of COFDM. The short version is that the FCC would accept anything that was NOT compatible with whetever Europe (or Japan) was deploying.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Yawn. More America bashing. Commercially produced European tapes on European VCR & TV.
I have no idea when the BBC quit using them, but Image Orthicons were short lived in the US. The RCA TK-44 was a vidicon color camera. The TK 46 was the same camera, but using Plumbicons. Image Orthicons required a lot more light, and didn't provide as clean of an image as the Vidicons. A Plumbicon is a Vidicon with a lead oxide faceplate.
-- You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's Teflon coated.
It got there because there had to be some justification over which system was chosen other than the country next door did something else. Then it devoloved from ignorance of existance of multisystem TVs and VCRs into justification why they could not exist.
To summarize, by 1985 I had bought, in Philadelphia (USA) the following: TV set, 19 inch, 25 inch and 14 inch and VHS and BETA VCRS which would play and record NTSC/60 3.57, NTSC/60 4.43, PAL/50, PAL/60 (TV only) and SECAM/50 video. Tuners for NTSC, European PAL, UK PAL and non French SECAM (aka Middle East SECAM).
In 1987 I added a VCR that would record and play PAL/60 and French SECAM.
In 1992 I added a VCR that would do digital conversions between any of the above.
Geoff.
-- Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.
4:3. So as I said a small size when showing 16:9. If indeed you ever saw 16:9 pictures in the studio.
You think all 'cheap overscanned TV sets' had the same 'hot' area?
And why would the engineer in charge of the actual pictures care about home overscan? That would be left to the production side.
I'm beginning to wonder how well you've kept up with things. Not much by the sound of it.
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*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things?
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Eh? Well I suppose you are American.
And you think commercially produced VHS or BetaMax tapes are suitable for judging any system? And you claim to have worked in broadcasting?
IOs where in use for mono up until the late '60s. Colour started off with
4 tube plumbicons.
IO were more sensitive than videcon. Only videcon colour cameras I've seen were low end industrial.
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*When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say? *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Don't think you've been following things. DVDs as such don't have either an NTSC or PAL footprint unless the originating material had.
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*Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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And you think the few cameras you've seen are suitable for judging any system? Just because you didn't see them doesn't mean they weren't built. I was using an RCA TK-16 Vidicon camera in the service that was built in the late '60s.
Vidicon cameras were usable in low light, properly designed. Not that the BBC was renowned for state of the art. I saw one of the first single gun color TV cameras in 1972/73, built by Magnavox for industrial video applications. That was at Ft. Rucker, Al. where the video production section was looking into newer cameras. If you consider 2" Ampex industrial video, you might argue. The mobile production units were several tractor trailers full, and they had just bought the first Tektronix U-matic decks built.
-- You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's Teflon coated.
Sigh. Did your mother have any kids without brain damage? Quit trying to put words in my mouth, you aren't smart enough to even try. Proper camera work made sure that the active portion of any image was properly framed. Proper framing was for near worst case TVs. No one gave a shit if your $139 jpanese TV cut off 25% all the way around the image.
-- You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's Teflon coated.
I've no experience in PAL or SECAM whatsoever. But to just unilaterally claim the NTSC is inferior I just don't see it. So there must be more to the story. Maybe politics in some wild manner? That tends to piss people off.
-- Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
I don't think that's correct. There are differences in the number of scanning lines and frame rate on NTSC and PAL DVDs.
With regard to your comment -- which is something like "there's no water in a glass unless you've poured water into it" -- what sort of non-PAL or non-NTSC-format material would you record on a video DVD?
It appears that the incorrect belief that PAL is "superior" is based on the fact that PAL is somewhat self-correcting for non-linear phase errors, and that one can build a receiver that automatically corrects for static phase errors in the burst or subcarrier.
These features, of course, have nothing whatever to do with the /basic/ image quality of the system, and aren't needed if the video distribution system is properly designed and maintained.
In every other respect, NTSC is objectively superior to PAL.
You appear only to have heard of RCA cameras.
Really?
Can you name a broadcast use for a single tube colour camera? Apart from stunt stuff where it would be destroyed.
U-matic? Only ever used for news stuff here. And office viewing before VHS.
1" C Format ruled until the arrival of Beta SP and MII.
--
*Acupuncture is a jab well done*
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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