should we REALLY turn pc's off at night? I don't think so.

If there is swapping going on, the PC is not idle.

/BAH

You will not find a way or solution from the automated point of view.

I do on/off every day, sometimes more than once the day. My HDD (5400upm) worked for six years now... not broken yet but changed to a bigger one, again with 5400.

The first start the day, I let the computer some time. More than the 30 sec., before he rushes to load my favourite OS. As well the monitor gets some time before he have to make over 60KHz frequency, starting at

31.5KHz and ending as well. First the Machine than the monitor and when turning on vice versa, first the monitor then the machine.

Allthough newer energy world-saver (heal the world, na.. na.. nanana...), don't give you the cahnce to do so. They turn off the monitor and on and off as they wish. I think a hardware cure, by DiY is the best way to remove that healing functions.

Best Regards,

Daniel Mandic

P.S.: (MB iP3 ~1997 [~8y full use], CRT SONY ~1993 [SGI-Type Sony... does not react to energy-saver on/off commands AND my 10-bit GfX-DAC to Monitor beast] and many other old stuff I am proud to ;-)

In sci.environment, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com

wrote on Sun, 10 Dec 06 11:48:05 GMT :

It gets a little complicated. If a job is running on the PC that requires too much virtual memory, the CPU may very well be mostly idle as it has to wait for the disk drive, which is thrashing like mad.

Even if the PC is "idle", the PC consumes power, as transistors are conducting as the clocks oscillate. I'd have to do some research as to how much.

--
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Linux makes one use one's mind.
Windows just messes with one's head.

Sigh! If there is swapping going on, the code that is running is the monitor code. We used to call all of that execution overhead. Idle time is when the CPU has no instructions to execute. Our monitor's method was to run the null job which was essentially a JRST .-1 in the ACs (no memory refs required) until an interrupt occurs that will give the CPU something useful to do.

You are using an incorrect word...unless the meaning has changed when I wasn't looking.

You don't run the clock; I think this is now called pause mode on the "green" laptops.

If you want to know if the PC is using power, use your hand and feel if there are hot spots.

/BAH

This is all assuming that power manglement still works; On my 'doze boxen it

*always* happens eventually that *something*; some god-forsaken application or some halfbaked fixpack will prevent power management from shutting down properly, the fans are blazing away, the CPU busy, the screen will be off and in some half-way power down mode (icons gone, but still running until powered down/hibernated manually).

Linux at least takes Orders: No application can prevent the Power Word from the Lord RooT from shutting the box down!

, (aside from the known fact that PC's have more chance

So?? The average business PC lasts 3 years before crumbling under the software load. It will take being switched off/on for that time too. I would not worry about it. O.T.O.H. If you have the "latest & greatest" kit it might be better to leave it on because power management has become so much better recently that the time spent booting might be equal to the power costs; some software such as antivirus package updates tend to *want* reboots, however.

PS:

Last time I went and measured the "idle mode" (Screen On, HD stopped, Nothing running) mode on the kiddies PC's (which tend to get left On always because they are quiet), it was running at about 35W for an Athlon64 box with 1GB RAM and a NVIDIA Geforce 6200 graphics card - which I though was pretty good power management myself. (My children have more money for PC's than I have!!!)

or

in

This is what happens when separation of exec and user software are not kept separated. In Unix lingo, exec=kernel.

the

That's how it's supposed to work. The kernel or the exec mode piece of the monitor has to have complete power without user interference. This is not micshit's OS philosophy at all.

/BAH

software

to

the

A system should not have to be rebooted just because there is a patch for the kernal. Our OSes could be patched without interrupting, stopping or rebooting the system. One did have to be careful and it required thought to patch the monitor on the fly.

they

a

There is a guy who has managed to reduce his power consumption to

12W, IIRC. He is interested because he lives on a boat and power is an important resource that cannot be squandered.

/BAH

Linux is a system, Windows is an anarchy.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool, snipped-for-privacy@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"

In message , snipped-for-privacy@cars3.uchicago.edu writes

[...]

And .NET is a totalitarian anarchy :-(

--
Richard Herring

I gather that's about as bad as things can get.

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool, snipped-for-privacy@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"

That's a contradiction in terms... An anarchy is a state without a governing body, whereas totalitarian means ruled exclusively by a dictator-like governing body.

So you're saying .NET is nothing?!!? __________________________________ The Grimch

In message , The Grim Reaper writes

Draw your own conclusions.

P & !P => Q.

--
Richard Herring

XP hibernate is based loosely on Compac/HP recovery in conjunction with on power PSU, and dumps a compressed file hiber.fil to Hard drive of memory map and internal software switch setting. Dump the crappy CRT which may sterilize via xray emissions(joke). There is however quite large magnetic and electric fields 30 to 40 thousand volts and lots of spare heat Modernise LCD 18watts max Moving parts are the the thing that fail, If your pedantic you can insist on ball bearing fans. How many billion revolutions do you expect a hard drive to last. No backup schedule ? Told you so. All you do is regularly clean all fans or replace them (they are cheap) and duct holes so air can freely flow where its needed. No dont put the logic unit on the floor thats where dust falls, or stuffed closely to other things like curtains, desks, best of all is a controlled atmosphere. I say stick if you can to single manufacturer source I support HP my PC , printer and laptop are all HP and The only time I do a shut down is when I have installed software. I hibernate and my systems are rock steady. I rely heavily on sp2 firewall no popups and anti virus is not installed.????? Hey I burn dvd roms every week to back up stuff. If im dumb enough to catch a worm, full factory default restore takes 45 to 60 minutes. hey it keeps my hand in.

Probably you are using a more precise technical meaning. Most people would describe their PC as "idle" if it isn't doing any useful stuff, which apparently isn't idle in your sense. Some MS OS's will crash while "idle" in the colloquial sense, which I suppose means the CPU was indeed doing something useful -- it was finding a way to freeze up.

It's worse than that; I use the DEC tecnical meanings.

Correct.

Freeze ups are simply buffer overruns where the OS allowed some app to distribute its data all over the device driver that controls putting stuff on the TTY. This could be the rat code or the keyboard code. The way I keep this OS I'm using from destroying the file structure integrity is by locating the TTY code before the disk stuff.

/BAH

But does it keep the CPU and device states?

/BAH

But Windows machines don't *have* a teletype, Barb :-)

Pete

If it did, the coders might have figured out that memory isn't infinite ;-). Anyway, people use their computers as if they were TTYs and it's a neat word.

/BAH