I just tried adding some water to some ordinary dust and rubbing it with my fingers. It got darker, but not jet black like the dust in TV sets. I think some kinds of dust particles are more atracted to the high voltage points in TV sets than other kinds are.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
Completely irrelevant. You have to explain how monitors used here in houses with only electrical heating and cooking get that jet black soot on all areas adjacent to the FBT.
Thats the EVIDENCE that it cant be coming from the oil heater combustion products.
Basic logic.
Its more complicated than that. Its mostly brown because of the particle size. You get brown even from just dust.
You dont get much jet black soot in the air, even when everyone is using wood heating. You get a very grey haze instead.
Yeah, you can certainly get dust sticking to what are very light colored, almost transparent webs.
I dont get that at all. Not at all clear why mine are much lighter than yours.
The darkest mine ever get is a light grey, particularly when its been rolled up. Mostly they are a buff/beige/light brown color.
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:50:11 +1000, "Tony Turner" Gave us:
Hahahahah... I like it.
However, if no one can see them, how do YOU know that it's twoo?
Huge zipping sound...
It's Twoo! It's TWOO!
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:12:35 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) Gave us:
Either that, or it gets carburized by the corona.
I do know for a fact that Flyback xformers do NOT exhibit particulate... just volts.
WHatever the "TYPE" of dust, it certainly is sourced externally. My monitor here right in front of me is that way... even on the exterior, in the area of the anode supply hardware.
It is VERY dusty in this reclaimed dessert portion of California. Ny monitors and the PCs have to be cleaned often. The monitor, once a year, and the PCs 4 or more times a year. All since I moved out here from the more coastal area I was at.
The idiot that thinks his FBT gives off "black soot" is merely an abject idiot, nothing more.
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:24:28 +1000, "Rod Speed" Gave us:
snip
WOW! You are a true expert! N O T !!!
Seems to be too much particulate matter flying around on this thread !
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:24:54 +1000, MC Gave us:
Said the person that just contributed some of it.
I see enough air that is fairly transparent but brownish. That's when nitrogen dioxide is a more significant factor than dust particles large enough to easily scatter light when isolated.
Wood makes gray haze from larger tarry particles and ash, diesel makes realy fine soot - maybe mostly in particles less than half a wavelength wide, which don't easily scatter light. And maybe the fine soot particles don't scatter much light because they are black.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
Yeah, stands out like dogs balls when you fly into Sydney in the right weather conditions. Its got the right conditions for that sort of smog buildup and that brown haze is utterly obscene in the right weather conditions.
Nope, it isnt mostly NOx
And you get a completely different effect when there is a bushfire problem, completely different color, pale grey instead, tho you can get some very spectacular visual effects at sunset in that situation. That sunset effect is the evidence that its not primarily a NOx effect.
Its the same effect that makes the sky blue.
It hasnt got anything to do with ash at all, its just what makes smoke grey. And that varys dramatically with the wetness of the wood.
Yes, but you dont get much of that rising to any great extent.
Thats utterly mangling the light scatter effect too.
Scatter has nothing to do with the color, its a size effect.
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:52:48 +1000, "Rod Speed" Gave us:
Ahhh... so now we know that this twit goes 'round looking at dogs' balls.
Interesting thread. It seems to me that the slightly greasy black dust found inside monitors is dust blackened by the normal outgassing of the plastic components. Leave an any color plastic (e.g. trash) container next to a room wall corner (where the circulation is poor) and you will see black wallpaper or paint in one year. As I recall, old wood cabinet TVs had more "normal" interior dust. Our real pollution is not from smokers -- simply vegetation being burnt -- but by all the oil derived crud from plastic and rubber in the air.
I see similar brownish but transparent air flowing out of some thunderstorms when I ride airplanes.
Are you claiming that these fine particles don't go where air goes and where other smoke particles go?
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
In my TV-trashpicking days, I found enough of that black dust in wooden-cabinet TV sets also. And stereo receivers and amplifiers, even with plastic in them, usually had normal dust.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
It aint NOx. That never get to anything like a high enough density in the atmosphere for it to be that.
Yep, they're considerably bigger and fall rather than rise. And they dont have the same hot air driving them either.
Have a look at a really badly setup diesel engine thats pouring out lots of the black stuff some time and see where it goes.
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:15:10 +1000, "Rod Speed" Gave us:
Diesels pollute less than gasoline fueled engines. Doh!
Not ll of the black particulate "falls" either. Doh!
You don't know "bad" from "rich". Many truckers set up rich for heavy loads. Another item that I am certain you are clueless about as indicated by your "the FBT is putting it out" stupidity.
And I serviced them decades ago and can't recall anything like what is found nowdays in monitors and TVs but admittedly the air was far cleaner then (at least where I lived) unless oil heat was used.. But I have seen the effects of outgassing plastic on for, example, walls.. The internal heat in monitors would certainly accelerate that And the ozone. .
Another nice science project.
Depends entirely on the specific pollution you are talking about. Gasoline engines dont normally produce anything like the same level of that black stuff being discussed there as a very badly setup diesel engine.
Reams of your puerile s*it flushed where it belongs.
A layer of air 4 miles thick with 1 PPM NO2 has light going through as much NO2 as it would going through a 1/4-inch layer of pure NO2, which is quite brown. I have seen an ampoule of the stuff before. A 1 inch thick layer of pure NO2 (some of it becomes N204 when that concentrated, a molecule of which is basicaly just two NO2 molecules stuck together more than being a different compound) is a rather dark brown, although still lighter than a Budweiser bottle. The stuff looks like bromine vapor. You can make visible quantities of nitrogen dioxide in a small glass jar if you put in that jar a spark gap with a capacitor of about a nanofarad across it and power the spark gap with a neon sign transformer. You may need to adjust the spark gap or try a larger capacitor (with power off!) if instead of a loud bright series of sparks you get an arc. Beware that a neon sign transformer with a capacitor across its secondary can resonate and the voltage may get high enough to cause destructive sparking in the transformer unless the spark gap is short enough to limit the voltage to a value safe for the transformer's insulation. Unhealthful air quality based on average concentration of the worst hour is .3 PPM of NOx, and that is mostly NO2, and that seems like enough to be visibly brownish in a layer just a few miles thick.
And how about ones in not-so-bad tune that make finer soot? I see enough blackish smoke from diesel trucks rising and flowing with air currents. Sometimes it looks bluish when illuminated by sunlight, so some of that soot has to be of particles of size around a wavelength or somewhat smaller, and particles that size don't fall out of the air faster than the gray stuff from wood fires.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:53:04 +0900, H. Dziardziel Gave us:
You seem to have this thing for plastics outgassing.
Sorry to burst your bubble but plastics that are used for monitor housings do not outgas black particulate.
The "plastics" used for the FBT shell are thermoset plastics and do not outgas. The potting material for FBTs does not outgas. IC chips and transistor are NOT packaged in plastic, they are encased in EPOXY, and the type used only "outgasses" at very high temperatures for exceeding those of the interior of a monitor shell.
Conclusion: Plastic, and plastic outgassing is NOT the source.
The source is externally attracted airborne particulate... PERIOD.
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