Market share data for microcontrollers

Two of my last three PIC projects used PIC12 parts: PIC12CE519 and PIC12F675 (the latter of which actually has the 14-bit core). These are both autonomous units rather than slaves, though their functions are admittedly very simple.

The third uses a PIC16C716, and is most definitely a slave device.

I've never actually used a PIC18. More complicated projects tend to get AVRs, though there is an HC908 project in the queue...

All micros (PIC or not) are chosen on that basis. Where I work, at least.

But PICs, AVRs, and HC908s have the advantage that we already have development tools for them.

And another potential upcoming project may use, umm, someone else's part, because 1) the micro is on the customer's "approved" list, and

2) the chip maker wants the design win bad enough that they'll, umm, work with us.

Regards,

-=Dave

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Change is inevitable, progress is not.
Reply to
Dave Hansen
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What is "domestic market"? Do computer monitors and TV sets count as "high volume" appliances? Every computer monitor I've been inside in the last 2 years has had either a standalone 8051 variant or an ASIC containing an 8051. Computer keyboards. USB flash-card-readers. CD-ROM drives (formerly, these often contained a standalone 8051-type chip, now it's usually integrated in an ASSP).

So what you're saying here is that the 8051 core sells more units than any - or indeed the aggregate of - PIC cores, yes? I could care less about merit, we were talking about volumes shipped. Microsoft is the only proof you need that the two ideas are utterly unrelated.

As I see it, your message boils down to saying "PIC is the most popular choice for products that contain a PIC". Really high-volume applications can get significant cost savings by using an ASIC. If there are more 8051 ASICs than PIC ASICs (I never heard of a PIC ASIC at all) then in "real high volume", the 8051 is still king no matter how you slice it.

Reply to
Lewin A.R.W. Edwards

Hi, I think you are putting your own spin on this. I was merely answering the question of where all the pics go. I did not say that the 8051 core out sells pic cores. I have never seen a 8051 standalone chip in any tv set, not all asics have a 8051 core either , how do you know the ones you've seen have?

Reply to
CBarn24050

Sorry Jim, you'll have to explain that last sentence to me. By foreign do you mean non US? and what is this cost advantage they have in high volumes.?

Ian

Reply to
Ian Bell

And it disproves the OP's claim that "The 8051 has allmost no presence as a stand alone chip in these (domestic) markets"

Ian

Reply to
Ian Bell

No you weren't, you said "The 8051 has allmost no presence as a stand alone chip in these (domestic) markets" which is plainly not true.

Ian

Reply to
Ian Bell

PIC18 microcontrollers are actually fairly decent given their price tag, and so is Microchip's C18 compiler.

Are you sure about that? The RISC architecture and the very simple instruction set are both a big advantage in some cases. A 100 ns per instruction speed + an hardware multiplier for a couple dollars a piece, that can hardly be beaten.

You failed to mention something, in my opinion. The 8051 core is so common that a lot of engineers know it "by heart" and are immediately efficient using it instead of some microcontroller that they'll need to learn first. This point *does* count in any given project: using the tools you're most confortable/efficient with.

Reply to
Guillaume

First let me apologize for my parochialism in using "foreign" when I Asian. Although I can't know the quantity price of the clone chip, I am familiar with some of the economics of low-end consumer devices made in Southern China using Sunplus, EMC and the like. An unauthorized clone avoids one-time development costs for the silicon and software tools, as well continuing marketing and support costs. Even for original chips there can be cost advantages to an Asian source, including better communication between product design and production engineers due to smaller geographic/cultural/lingustic distance, sometimes lower tariffs, and of course, usually lower chip design and production costs.

-- Jim McGinnis

Reply to
Jim McGinnis

Moto 8-bitters, very very rarely. I see 16/32-bit stuff in DSL and ISDN equipment, that's about it. Not that I spend my whole life delving into appliances, but I do get more than my fair share of time looking inside consumer electronics.

Even with the info, if they are a competent provider of survey data, it could be tough to work out exactly what they measured ;)

Reply to
Lewin A.R.W. Edwards

I don't have a spin. I really don't care who sells more chips. I tend to work on low-volume products so I've got the whole field open to me. (I find PIC is not as easy to work with as AVR, but I've used both families - and 8051 for that matter - and wouldn't hesitate to use a PIC if it was the right fit for an application). But it is an observable phenomenon that 51s are everywhere.

You said that the PIC outsells 8051 in "high volume" applications and the "domestic market". I ask for a definition of these terms, because they obviously don't mean the same thing to me as they do to you. I regard, say, CD players, CD-ROM drives, USB flash-card readers and computer monitors, as all being exceedingly high-volume products. The issue of what "domestic market" means is even grayer. Do you mean some specific market, like say North America, or are you making a general statement that PICs are used principally in goods that are not intended for export?

Because I have official data for some of them, and ROM disassemblies for others (also don't forget ASSPs, like all-in-one VCR system controllers, all-in-one LCD monitor controllers, all-in-one CRT monitor controllers, CD controllers and so on - practically all of these I've seen are 8051-cored). Furthermore, I see numerous vendors advertising 8051 cores ready to integrate into your ASIC like a side of fries, and nowhere have I seen anyone advertising the PIC as integrable IP.

Reply to
Lewin A.R.W. Edwards

That is a lot clearer. I have a lot of experience of Asian manufacture myself so I think it is important to be clear this covers a lot of territory. Korea for example has a very active, legitimate and generaly proftable semiconductor industry (e.g Samsung).

I suspect your comments were more aimed at specific Chinese companies.

I have been involved in the development of many products that were manufactured in China. The main reason for this is not the cost of components or the assembly/test cost of electronics which can be built as cheaply in Europe or the US. The main cost saving is in the labour intensive electro-mechanical assembly activities due to the lower labour costs. This factor and the desire to complete all aspects of production under one roof was what made Chinese manufacture attractive.

Ian

Reply to
Ian Bell

Reminds me of when I was in Japan and visited the "worlds largest Tokyo Tower" :-)

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Best Regards
Ulf at atmel dot com
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Reply to
Ulf Samuelsson

Good 1 ulf, it,s a bit like the NFL's world series.

Reply to
CBarn24050

ITYM MLB's World Series. The NFL has the Superbowl.

ObEmbedded: I hear they've started putting shock sensors in (American) (High School/College) Football helmets with micros that communicate to a base station over RF. If a kid's sensor says he's taken too much, he gets pulled out of the game, no matter how hard he protests "I feel fine, coach!" Neato.

Regards,

-=Dave

--
Change is inevitable, progress is not.
Reply to
Dave Hansen

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