looking for hardware source

My goal is not nearly as forceful as that. I simply believe that a discussion forum of any kind is better for its users if they follow a similar communication style. The standard style for this newsgroup is text-only, with replies inline and/or bottom posted. Like most (I know that's subjective, but it's based on reading this group for many years) here who bother to express an opinion, I think that style is best for this group - for a variety of good reasons.

I am not trying to "win" anything, nor to force anyone. I believe that when a person joins any established group of people, they should adapt to the customs and conventions of that group. That's just common courtesy and respect. It is particularly irritating when people (not you, but another poster in this thread) join the group and not only ignore the established conventions, but claim loudly that their way of doing it is better, and we should all change.

Yes, we both know that posting style is voluntary, and not law - and we agree that this is the way it should be. I simply believe that people should voluntarily follow the conventions of the group - it's best for us in the group from before, it is best for the new people joining the group, and it is best for future readers of the archives.

The lack of binaries on this group is due to filtering on servers to block binaries. This is done on most text-only newsgroups, and is important to the working of newsservers and news archivers, many of which only carry text-only newsgroups. Similarly, most newsservers will provide a certain amount of spam filtering of posts (at least for the most obvious spams) - this greatly improves their usability. You can certainly argue this amounts to censorship, but it is a very long way from any sort of freedom-curtailing censorship. In fact, the filters on most newsservers (including the one I use) are not strong enough to block the flooding with text junk that has hit this group several times in the last couple of months.

PLONK

Do you know how many RFCs must be obeyed for you to have Internet service (including this net news you are using)?

I'd like to see a source to support that statement.

I've never encountered any organization requiring top-posting. What I usually see are clueless repliers who are using some M$ product to which Bill Gates applies his own rules such as top-posting replies and including an HTML version of the same text.

One person and I bid bridge hands via email. I can just see the effect of top-posting the replies:

Another person and I hold business "conversations" via email and some of the threads get complex and sometimes have more than one topic. Interleaved replies are the only thing that make sense in these cases. Requiring top-posting would be ridiculous.

I've had such badly top-posted emails that I've had to copy it into a text editor then cut and paste everything into the right order. Very boring and time consuming.

Andrew

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:34:01 PST, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and snipped-for-privacy@mojaveg.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com (Everett M. Greene) instead replied:

Must be obeyed? Look, my friend. Compliance is voluntary. There is no "must be obeyed" about it. An RFC is a Request For Comments and nothing more.

-- Ray

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:33:07 +0100, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and David Brown instead replied:

Your belief is noted. Mine belief is that people should post as they wish; top, middle or bottom. What if you were suddenly invaded by a group of programmers who all liked to top post? Would you then change and encourage others to top post?

-- Ray

Irrelevant. it is the chronological order of bidding that is important and not the way it is laid out in a log.

It is the "requiring" that is ridiculous. It is only the bottom poster who "requires". The top poster deals with posts of any mix.

I guess I'd try to encourage the newcomers to post properly. But ultimately, if a high enough percentage (which would be well over 50%) of the group always top-posted so that top-posting improved the group, then I'd switch to top-posting here. Idealism is important, but sometimes practicality trumps it.

Without following the RFC's, there would be no such thing as the Internet, or anything else based on IP networking, since the RFC's form the definitions of all these protocols. Some of them are more user-level, such as the ones mentioned about newsgroup posts, but the fact that you can post and read this group is down to your newsreader and your newsserver obeying the appropriate RFC's.

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 22:23:04 +0100, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and David Brown instead replied:

A REQUEST FOR COMMENT is not a set of guidelines or rules. It is just what it states. A request for you to comment or offer your opinion. Do you understand that? Please tell me you do.

Comments can go into the realm of an undoable thing, you know. They can also go counter to your precious opinion of how things should be done. In short, they are worthless in the grand scheme of making USENET work. Don't take this as a personal attack but pay attention to what you declare as sovereign rule. There's no such thing in the anarchistic world of USENET. The only thing it has going for it is the VOLUNTARY compliance to suggestions and nothing more.

If you want rules, start a private forum. Otherwise, simply exist here and allow others to exist as they see fit. In short, shut up.

-- Ray

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 22:10:04 +0100, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and David Brown instead replied:

To some here, top posting is "proper" posting. Get over it. They certainly don't seem to be insisting that you do it their way.

-- Ray

Take a look at some of the important RFCs and how detailed they are, and how important that technical detail is, and you will understand that the literal meaning of the traditional label "Request For Comment" no longer applies to them, after they have become adopted. David is right as regards the RFC's for IP etc.

Of course detailed obedience to the RFC on newsgroup posting formats is less critical, since most (?) readers are flexible (?) people. (Personally I find bottom-posting to be more natural than top-posting, both to write and to read.)

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:22:10 +0200, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and Niklas Holsti instead replied:

The remain REQUEST FOR COMMENT documents, not rules.

-- Ray

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:15:21 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and CBFalconer instead replied:

That's a rather extreme form of censorship simply because you disagree with him.

-- Ray

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:58:33 +0900, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and Ray Haddad instead replied:

By the way, that was meant to make you smile. Nothing more. But you may flame me, plonk me, ignore me or call my office. I'll have my secretary await your message to me.

I told her you were a top priority today.

-- Ray

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