1. Home
  2. Electronics (French)
  3. Routage avec une antenne céramique

Routage avec une antenne céramique

ANT-868-CHP-B. J'utilise cette antenne sur un module LoRa Lambda62.

pense queje peux lui faire confiance.

quarantaine de dB.

autour des trous de montage avec une visserie acier (perte de 20 dB au passage).

Les contraintes sont les suivantes : - position du CAM-M8 fixe ; - position du connecteur fixe ;

- deux couches ; - dimensions (45mm*45mm).

des trous de vis.

Image ici :

formatting link

positionner un peu plus haut ?

grossier.

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB
Loading thread data ...

Image ici :

formatting link

La question est de savoir si c'est suffisant. Je viens de passer une

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

Elle n'est pas si petite que cela... 16mm de long. Et c'est une quart-d'onde.

simple.

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

passe.

fil (l/2).

dBm.

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

bon niveau.

Je viens de poser la question au fabricant.

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

Quelques mesures plus tard...

[2021-08-25 17:43:02.335] TX power : 0 dbm [2021-08-25 17:43:02.405] tx begin [2021-08-25 17:43:02.405] ticks=77200 freq=867100000 power=7 bw=125000 sf=8

Parfait, on demande au module d'envoyer une puissance de 0 dBm.

pattes du module. Au bout de ce coax, j'ai un URV35 de Rhode &

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

indique pour une puissance de sortie de 14 dBm. Je vais donc penser

niveau attendu et cette perte semble provenir du module.

La seule explication valable que je pourrais trouver, c'est une

une erreur de plus dans la doc du lambda62...

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

Actuellement, je suis sur onduleur pour travailler...). J'avoue

maintenant un autre message d'erreur (ADC 2V fail et ADC GND fail).

vois pas comment. Je n'ai jamais fait tourner le circuit sans

switch de sortie), un fil lambda/2 ou une charge 50R...

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

Je viens de souder un autre module, neuf. J'ai cette fois-ci

[2021-08-31 16:56:56.796] channel is ready [2021-08-31 16:56:56.940] preparing data frame [2021-08-31 16:56:56.940] adding link_check_req [2021-08-31 16:56:56.956] initiate data: ticks=3198136 [2021-08-31 16:56:56.988] TX power : 0 dbm [2021-08-31 16:56:57.049] tx begin [2021-08-31 16:56:57.049] ticks=3198217 freq=867100000 power=7 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-08-31 16:56:57.273] Interrupt TX [2021-08-31 16:56:57.289] tx complete [2021-08-31 16:56:57.289] ticks=3198471 [2021-08-31 16:56:58.295] rx1 slot [2021-08-31 16:56:58.295] ticks=3199463 timeout=28 lag=5 freq=867100000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-08-31 16:56:58.359] Interrupt RX [2021-08-31 16:56:58.404] downlink: ticks=3199565 rssi=-25 snr=9 size=16 [2021-08-31 16:56:58.404] link_check_ans: margin=20 gwCount=1

par le SX1262 (moyenne sur le paquet RX). L'ordre de grandeur est correct.

Je suis content.

[2021-08-31 16:58:03.544] channel is ready [2021-08-31 16:58:03.944] preparing data frame [2021-08-31 16:58:03.944] adding link_check_req [2021-08-31 16:58:03.960] initiate data: ticks=3265132 [2021-08-31 16:58:03.975] TX power : 0 dbm [2021-08-31 16:58:04.051] tx begin [2021-08-31 16:58:04.052] ticks=3265221 freq=867700000 power=7 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-08-31 16:58:04.275] Interrupt TX [2021-08-31 16:58:04.291] tx complete [2021-08-31 16:58:04.291] ticks=3265476 [2021-08-31 16:58:05.286] rx1 slot [2021-08-31 16:58:05.286] ticks=3266457 timeout=28 lag=1 freq=867700000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-08-31 16:58:05.367] Interrupt RX [2021-08-31 16:58:05.410] downlink: ticks=3266575 rssi=-38 snr=11 size=16 [2021-08-31 16:58:05.410] link_check_ans: margin=21 gwCount=1

Les valeurs sont consistantes.

puisque la marge et le rapport signal sur bruit restent importants !

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

Sinon bonjour la coexistence de plusieurs applications en espace restreint.

Reply to
bilou

augmente. Seconde question : pourquoi alors qu'en voie descendante,

JKB

le composant ne le permet pas, en tout cas pas simplement. Il n'est pas

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

Autres tests, plusieurs puissances. Les valeurs RSSI et SNR sont

Downlink : 14 dBm [2021-09-01 10:20:54.465] TX power : 0 dbm [2021-09-01 10:20:54.535] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:20:54.535] ticks=104044 freq=867500000 power=7 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:20:54.759] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:20:54.775] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:20:54.775] ticks=104296 [2021-09-01 10:20:55.771] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:20:55.771] ticks=105280 timeout=28 lag=3 freq=867500000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:20:55.867] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:20:55.919] downlink: ticks=105416 rssi=-26 snr=8 size=22 [2021-09-01 10:20:55.919] link_check_ans: margin=15 gwCount=1 [2021-09-01 10:20:55.919] device_time_ans: seconds=1314519673 fractions=231 RSSI=-109 SNR=5

[2021-09-01 10:22:00.562] TX power : 2 dbm [2021-09-01 10:22:00.630] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:22:00.630] ticks=170142 freq=868100000 power=6 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:22:00.854] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:22:00.870] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:22:00.870] ticks=170394 [2021-09-01 10:22:01.866] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:22:01.866] ticks=171378 timeout=28 lag=1 freq=868100000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:22:01.946] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:22:01.988] downlink: ticks=171496 rssi=-28 snr=10 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:22:01.988] link_check_ans: margin=14 gwCount=1 RSSI=-111 SNR=4 [2021-09-01 10:23:07.815] TX power : 4 dbm [2021-09-01 10:23:07.880] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:23:07.880] ticks=237393 freq=867700000 power=5 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:23:08.104] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:23:08.120] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:23:08.120] ticks=237643 [2021-09-01 10:23:09.118] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:23:09.118] ticks=238631 timeout=28 lag=1 freq=867700000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:23:09.198] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:23:09.214] downlink: ticks=238743 rssi=-27 snr=9 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:23:09.230] link_check_ans: margin=16 gwCount=1 RSSI=-105 SNR=6 [2021-09-01 10:24:15.057] TX power : 6 dbm [2021-09-01 10:24:15.128] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:24:15.128] ticks=304641 freq=867500000 power=4 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:24:15.352] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:24:15.368] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:24:15.368] ticks=304895 [2021-09-01 10:24:16.358] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:24:16.358] ticks=305871 timeout=28 lag=3 freq=867500000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:24:16.437] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:24:16.483] downlink: ticks=305991 rssi=-27 snr=9 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:24:16.483] link_check_ans: margin=17 gwCount=1 RSSI=-103 SNR=7 [2021-09-01 10:25:21.812] TX power : 8 dbm [2021-09-01 10:25:21.880] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:25:21.880] ticks=371394 freq=868100000 power=3 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:25:22.103] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:25:22.119] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:25:22.119] ticks=371646 [2021-09-01 10:25:23.114] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:25:23.114] ticks=372628 timeout=28 lag=5 freq=868100000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:25:23.194] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:25:23.232] downlink: ticks=372742 rssi=-28 snr=10 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:25:23.232] link_check_ans: margin=18 gwCount=1 RSSI=-105 SNR=8 [2021-09-01 10:26:29.074] TX power : 10 dbm [2021-09-01 10:26:29.123] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:26:29.123] ticks=438640 freq=867700000 power=2 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:26:29.347] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:26:29.363] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:26:29.363] ticks=438894 [2021-09-01 10:26:30.359] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:26:30.359] ticks=439876 timeout=28 lag=3 freq=867700000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:26:30.455] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:26:30.504] downlink: ticks=440008 rssi=-28 snr=9 size=21 [2021-09-01 10:26:30.504] link_check_ans: margin=19 gwCount=1 [2021-09-01 10:26:30.504] link_adr_req: dataRate=5 txPower=1 chMask=00ff chMaskCntl=0 nbTrans=1 RSSI=-104 SNR=9 [2021-09-01 10:27:37.067] TX power : 12 dbm [2021-09-01 10:27:37.133] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:27:37.133] ticks=506651 freq=867100000 power=1 bw=125000 sf=8 size=75 [2021-09-01 10:27:37.372] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:27:37.388] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:27:37.388] ticks=506915 [2021-09-01 10:27:38.379] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:27:38.379] ticks=507897 timeout=28 lag=1 freq=867100000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:27:38.459] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:27:38.475] downlink: ticks=508005 rssi=-27 snr=10 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:27:38.491] link_check_ans: margin=18 gwCount=1 RSSI=-104 SNR=8 [2021-09-01 10:28:43.866] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:28:43.866] ticks=573386 freq=867500000 power=0 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:28:44.090] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:28:44.106] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:28:44.106] ticks=573640 [2021-09-01 10:28:45.096] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:28:45.096] ticks=574616 timeout=28 lag=1 freq=867500000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:28:45.176] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:28:45.222] downlink: ticks=574738 rssi=-27 snr=9 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:28:45.222] link_check_ans: margin=17 gwCount=1 RSSI=-101 SNR=7

interrogation.

1m de distance, downlink 0dBm: [2021-09-01 10:33:55.808] TX power : 0 dbm [2021-09-01 10:33:55.856] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:33:55.872] ticks=129928 freq=867100000 power=7 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:33:56.096] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:33:56.112] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:33:56.112] ticks=130180 [2021-09-01 10:33:57.106] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:33:57.106] ticks=131162 timeout=28 lag=3 freq=867100000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:33:57.170] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:33:57.202] downlink: ticks=131262 rssi=-22 snr=6 size=12 RSSI=-99 SNR=8 [2021-09-01 10:35:02.358] TX power : 2 dbm [2021-09-01 10:35:02.425] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:35:02.425] ticks=196481 freq=867300000 power=6 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:35:02.648] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:35:02.664] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:35:02.664] ticks=196737 [2021-09-01 10:35:03.659] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:35:03.659] ticks=197715 timeout=28 lag=1 freq=867300000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:35:03.739] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:35:03.777] downlink: ticks=197829 rssi=-22 snr=6 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:35:03.777] link_check_ans: margin=20 gwCount=1 RSSI-99 SNR=10 [2021-09-01 10:36:09.124] TX power : 4 dbm [2021-09-01 10:36:09.178] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:36:09.178] ticks=263236 freq=868500000 power=5 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:36:09.418] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:36:09.434] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:36:09.434] ticks=263494 [2021-09-01 10:36:10.424] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:36:10.424] ticks=264482 timeout=28 lag=5 freq=868500000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:36:10.488] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:36:10.534] downlink: ticks=264586 rssi=-23 snr=8 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:36:10.534] link_check_ans: margin=18 gwCount=1 RSSI=-98 SNR=8 [2021-09-01 10:37:16.361] TX power : 6 dbm [2021-09-01 10:37:16.409] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:37:16.425] ticks=330485 freq=868100000 power=4 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:37:16.649] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:37:16.665] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:37:16.665] ticks=330741 [2021-09-01 10:37:17.657] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:37:17.657] ticks=331717 timeout=28 lag=3 freq=868100000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:37:17.737] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:37:17.781] downlink: ticks=331837 rssi=-22 snr=6 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:37:17.781] link_check_ans: margin=21 gwCount=1 RSSI=-97 SNR=11 [2021-09-01 10:38:23.112] TX power : 8 dbm [2021-09-01 10:38:23.173] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:38:23.173] ticks=397234 freq=867900000 power=3 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:38:23.397] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:38:23.413] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:38:23.413] ticks=397488 [2021-09-01 10:38:24.409] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:38:24.409] ticks=398470 timeout=28 lag=1 freq=867900000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:38:24.489] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:38:24.529] downlink: ticks=398586 rssi=-23 snr=-7 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:38:24.529] link_check_ans: margin=19 gwCount=1 RSSI=-90 SNR=9 [2021-09-01 10:39:58.986] TX power : 12 dbm [2021-09-01 10:39:59.045] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:39:59.045] ticks=493109 freq=867900000 power=1 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:39:59.269] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:39:59.285] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:39:59.285] ticks=493361 [2021-09-01 10:40:00.276] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:40:00.276] ticks=494339 timeout=28 lag=1 freq=867900000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:40:00.356] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:40:00.388] downlink: ticks=494463 rssi=-23 snr=-7 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:40:00.403] link_check_ans: margin=20 gwCount=1 SSI=-92 SNR=10 [2021-09-01 10:30:57.817] TX power : 14 dbm [2021-09-01 10:30:57.883] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:30:57.883] ticks=707406 freq=867500000 power=0 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:30:58.123] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:30:58.123] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:30:58.123] ticks=707660 [2021-09-01 10:30:59.125] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:30:59.125] ticks=708648 timeout=28 lag=1 freq=867500000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:30:59.205] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:30:59.221] downlink: ticks=708754 rssi=-21 snr=5 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:30:59.237] link_check_ans: margin=18 gwCount=1 RSSI=-81 SNR=8

Le RSSI bouge dans tous les sens.

Second test : distance 10m (pas en vue directe, il y a des cloisons

Join : [2021-09-01 10:49:50.409] TX power : 14 dbm ... [2021-09-01 10:50:04.547] ticks=109019 timeout=68 lag=1 freq=868100000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:50:04.723] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:50:04.739] downlink: ticks=109225 rssi=-7 snr=-8 size=33

(RSSI=-113, SNR=-13, CRC err)

[2021-09-01 10:52:37.224] TX power : 2 dbm [2021-09-01 10:52:37.279] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:52:37.279] ticks=261756 freq=867300000 power=6 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:52:37.519] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:52:37.535] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:52:37.535] ticks=262016 [2021-09-01 10:52:38.516] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:52:38.516] ticks=262992 timeout=28 lag=3 freq=867300000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:52:38.611] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:52:38.668] downlink: ticks=263128 rssi=-6 snr=-9 size=22 RSSI=-116 SNR=-10 [2021-09-01 10:53:44.078] TX power : 4 dbm [2021-09-01 10:53:44.135] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:53:44.135] ticks=328615 freq=868100000 power=5 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:53:44.359] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:53:44.375] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:53:44.375] ticks=328868 [2021-09-01 10:53:45.375] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:53:45.375] ticks=329854 timeout=28 lag=1 freq=868100000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:53:45.455] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:53:45.471] downlink: ticks=329964 rssi=-6 snr=-8 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:53:45.487] link_check_ans: margin=0 gwCount=1 RSSI=-118 SNR=-9 [2021-09-01 10:57:44.735] TX power : 10 dbm [2021-09-01 10:57:44.795] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:57:44.795] ticks=569280 freq=868300000 power=2 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:57:45.018] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:57:45.034] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:57:45.034] ticks=569530 [2021-09-01 10:57:46.039] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:57:46.039] ticks=570524 timeout=28 lag=5 freq=868300000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:57:46.103] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:57:46.145] downlink: ticks=570626 rssi=-6 snr=-8 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:57:46.145] link_check_ans: margin=4 gwCount=1 RSSI=-116 SNR=-5 [2021-09-01 10:58:51.092] TX power : 12 dbm [2021-09-01 10:58:51.144] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:58:51.144] ticks=635631 freq=867100000 power=1 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:58:51.368] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:58:51.384] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:58:51.384] ticks=635883 [2021-09-01 10:58:52.385] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 10:58:52.385] ticks=636871 timeout=28 lag=4 freq=867100000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 10:58:52.464] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 10:58:52.480] downlink: ticks=636979 rssi=-6 snr=-8 size=16 [2021-09-01 10:58:52.496] link_check_ans: margin=6 gwCount=1 RSSI=-116 SNR=-3 [2021-09-01 10:59:59.091] TX power : 14 dbm [2021-09-01 10:59:59.150] tx begin [2021-09-01 10:59:59.150] ticks=703638 freq=868500000 power=0 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 10:59:59.374] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 10:59:59.390] tx complete [2021-09-01 10:59:59.390] ticks=703888 [2021-09-01 11:00:00.391] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 11:00:00.391] ticks=704880 timeout=28 lag=3 freq=868500000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 11:00:00.455] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 11:00:00.498] downlink: ticks=704982 rssi=-6 snr=-8 size=16 [2021-09-01 11:00:00.498] link_check_ans: margin=5 gwCount=1 RSSI=-116 SNR=-4

n'importe quoi comme RSSI, mais dans ce cas, je devrais toujours

deux voies), mais assez similaires.

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

En fait, non, pas si silimaires que cela : [2021-09-01 11:33:53.840] TX power : 0 dbm [2021-09-01 11:33:53.899] tx begin [2021-09-01 11:33:53.900] ticks=377463 freq=868500000 power=7 bw=125000 sf=8 size=73 [2021-09-01 11:33:54.123] Interrupt TX [2021-09-01 11:33:54.139] tx complete [2021-09-01 11:33:54.139] ticks=377713 [2021-09-01 11:33:55.135] rx1 slot [2021-09-01 11:33:55.135] ticks=378699 timeout=28 lag=1 freq=868500000 bw=125000 sf=8 [2021-09-01 11:33:55.215] Interrupt RX [2021-09-01 11:33:55.255] downlink: ticks=378813 rssi=-19 snr=5 size=16

Le RSSI est maintenant plus faible, mais le rapport signal sur bruit est bien meilleur ! Les mesures sont reproductibles.

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

"nettoyage" de la polution industrielle.

--
Mail .invalid
Reply to
Olivier B.

originaire d'Europe de l'est et absolument pas aux normes. Il y a

quinzaine de jours sans courant par an).

faisais des piges dans une grande entreprise parisienne, ErDF avait

peu faible...

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

Je sais bien...

que j'obtiens en radio. Le module consomme le bon courant sur

j'ai beau le prendre dans tous les sens, je ne vois pas ce qui

mais dans ce cas, il faut m'expliquer pourquoi dans ma

JKB

--
Si votre demande me parvient en code 29, je vous titiouillerai volontiers
Reply to
JKB

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.