Flip Flops

Good grief! How high up the abstraction stack did they start?

How can people teach computer "science" and not explain how a computer works? That would be like teaching physics and ignoring the simple stuff like force and momentum.

John

Chips use logic gates in a 'cross-coupled' configuration to hold each other high and low until the inputs change.

Googling 'flip flop gate tutorial' found:

You can trace the logic levels through the gates to see how they reinforce each other's logic state until an input change occurs.

HTH

There is a toggle flip flop, using a couple transistors, with explanation at this address:

It doesn't use any ICs, but does have one moving part, a pushbutton switch to toggle the thing, but you could use a short negative pulse from some other source to replace the switch, thus eliminating all moving parts.

-Bill

--

Have a look at
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/g.knott/index19.htm

I have a comp sci degree, and something that was never explained were flip flops. I never understood on a chip how switching occurs with no moving parts, no this is not a troll but a genuine newbie to electronics question, which as I get involved with am beginning to really enjoy, having just built a working kit. The course lectures never went near the electronics side of things, the closest we got were logic gates.

TIA,

algebra, combinatorics, graph theory, and other discrete math and related topics. It involves generating mathematical algorithms which solve problems efficiently (or not). It would naturally start very high up with "I have a computer that can execute such and such instructions and has such and such storage space. How do I solve a problem with a series of these instructions?" One doesn't need to know that SRAM uses logic gates and DRAM uses capacitors or how to simplify a K-Map in order to create a series of computer instructions that inverts a matrix.

digital watch, do they?

programs don't even talk about digital design until junior or senior year, you can hardly expect a Computer Science program to get anywhere near that point.

Oh, *that* explains why I'm seeing so little viable competition lately. Suits me just fine.

John

algebra, combinatorics, graph theory, and other discrete math and related topics. It involves generating mathematical algorithms which solve problems efficiently (or not). It would naturally start very high up with "I have a computer that can execute such and such instructions and has such and such storage space. How do I solve a problem with a series of these instructions?" One doesn't need to know that SRAM uses logic gates and DRAM uses capacitors or how to simplify a K-Map in order to create a series of computer instructions that inverts a matrix.

digital watch, do they?

programs don't even talk about digital design until junior or senior year, you can hardly expect a Computer Science program to get anywhere near that point.

Do the CE/EE programs you are familiar with talk about how to set word-wrap on a newsreader? I'm asking because the EE program I graduated introduced digital basics as a Freshman class, and I know how to use a newsreader. There may be a logical correlation.

John:

Computer Science is a specialization of Mathematics, in particular = linear algebra, combinatorics, graph theory, and other discrete math and = related topics. It involves generating mathematical algorithms which = solve problems efficiently (or not). It would naturally start very high = up with "I have a computer that can execute such and such instructions = and has such and such storage space. How do I solve a problem with a = series of these instructions?" One doesn't need to know that SRAM uses = logic gates and DRAM uses capacitors or how to simplify a K-Map in order = to create a series of computer instructions that inverts a matrix.

People don't need to understand a BCD->7seg decoder in order to read = their digital watch, do they?

And really, considering that most Computer Engineering/Electrical = Engineering programs don't even talk about digital design until junior = or senior year, you can hardly expect a Computer Science program to get = anywhere near that point.

--dbernat32

"John Larkin" wrote in = message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

flip

...or you could conform to STANDARD PRACTICE.

on the chip electrons are the moving parts.

an N channel FET works by electrons in one place (called the gate) repelling electrons in another place (called the channel) and stopping them from flowing past.

so here an abundance of electrons in one place causes a lack of electrons in a second place... and vice versa, this is the basis of the switching that's used to build flip-flops and other logic devices.

Bye. Jasen

Kitchen Man:

The basics are taught earlier, yes. Logics gates and what-not. How one = combines BJTs into an inverter or NAND gate and why it works, that is = taught much later.

As for word-wrap, not to start a flame war but, get a MIME compliant = newsreader. MIME has existed now for a long time. You would then = notice that my previous message and this one are encoded in = "quoted-printable". A MIME compatible reader will properly display such = a message and perform word-wrapping automatically.

I, personally, enjoy choosing the line length that pleases me the most. = I do not always like the forced word-wrapping that you would suggest I = use.

--dbernat32

linear algebra, combinatorics, graph theory, and other discrete math and = related topics. It involves generating mathematical algorithms which = solve problems efficiently (or not). It would naturally start very high = up with "I have a computer that can execute such and such instructions = and has such and such storage space. How do I solve a problem with a = series of these instructions?" One doesn't need to know that SRAM uses = logic gates and DRAM uses capacitors or how to simplify a K-Map in order = to create a series of computer instructions that inverts a matrix.

their digital watch, do they?

Engineering programs don't even talk about digital design until junior = or senior year, you can hardly expect a Computer Science program to get = anywhere near that point.

Bingo! . .

You'll notice that he top-posts as well. I think you found the proper word.

Usenet started in 1979. Times have changed a little since then. Most = of the Usenet standard guides were written in the 90's. Most people = have MIME compatible newsreaders; the few that don't should get one. If people never question the standards, nothing changes, especially = changes for the better. I repeat that I enjoy choosing a line length myself, not one chosen by = the poster or his/her newsreader. "Quoted-printable" encoding allows = for this.

--dbernat32

Usenet standard guides were written in the 90's. Most people have MIME compatible newsreaders; the few that don't should get one.

for the better.

poster or his/her newsreader. "Quoted-printable" encoding allows for this.

Who says that it needs to change? If you don't like the way Usenet works, there are thousands of code bloat filled PHP based forums you can move to. Not everyone has a choice of how they read newsgroups. Some are blind and have to use software to hear the page. Others can't use newer software, and can't buy a new computer, while others are using someone else's computer.

On the other hand there are plenty of self centered jerks who want everyone to change to please them.

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

I'd rather have one that sends a nasty shock to top posters when they click on "SEND". ;-)

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

What is really needed is a newsreader that converts top posting ;-)

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
                                             (Stephen Leacock)

OK, I'll start the flame war.

USENET is an ASCII medium. It is designed for text. A _real_ newsreader sends and receives ASCII text. Binaries are a fairly recent addition, and all these gyrations that they have to go through to do tricks on USENET are from scriptkiddies who like whiz-bang, but wouldn't know netiquette if it jumped up and bit them in the ass.

And about the rudest thing you can _possibly_ do when someone offers you a suggestion to improve your posting style, is to demand that _they_ get a different newsreader to accommodate _your_ shortcomings.

Thanks, Rich

No, people who suggest that others "should" use something that suits _your_ rudeness and block-headedness, should f*ck off and die.

Thanks, Rich

algebra, combinatorics, graph theory, and other discrete math and related topics. It involves generating mathematical algorithms which solve problems efficiently (or not). It would naturally start very high up with "I have a computer that can execute such and such instructions and has such and such storage space. How do I solve a problem with a series of these instructions?" One doesn't need to know that SRAM uses logic gates and DRAM uses capacitors or how to simplify a K-Map in order to create a series of computer instructions that inverts a matrix.

digital watch, do they?

programs don't even talk about digital design until junior or senior year, you can hardly expect a Computer Science program to get anywhere near that point.

:)

0ne of the tasks set me in freshman CS year was implementing word wrap. :) But you're right the lack of wrap is annoying,

Bye. Jasen