Electronic Challenge Help Requested

Ok, what am I missing here. If the same source (120vac) is applied to the both the module and a the motion then the outputs of those devices (120vac) will be the same phase, not?? OR are you's just trying to error on the side of caution??

Les

It appears that the automation module has an uncommitted contact and one =

side (switch in) is shown externally connected to line. The motion = detector=20 has a line connection and a neutral for power, and the triac is = internally=20 connected between line and the output which is the red wire going to the =

load (lamps). As long as the automation module is properly connected to = line=20 and neutral, and the sense line is disconnected and deactivated, I see = no=20 way to cause damage unless the other side of the switch (switch out) = would=20 be connected to neutral. Then, of course, the switch would short out the =

line when activated. There is only one phase to be concerned about.

If in doubt, use a small circuit breaker (1-2 amps) and 40-60 watt lamps = in=20 place of the floodlights for testing.

Paul=20

(Courier Font Asciimatic showing a possible short circuit path.)

the module and a the motion then the

just trying to error on the side of caution??

I thought I knew what John was getting at when he mentioned a hazardous phase issue. This is all I could come up with:

We know that the PIR floodlight fixture uses a 'high side' switch. That is, the lamps are connected to neutral on one side and 120 VAC goes through the switch to turn the lamps on. We don't know, however if the switch output on the security module is 'high side' or 'low side'.

If it is 'high side', either the PIR floodlight electronics or the security module electronics (or both) can power the floodlights with impunity. If the switch in the security module is 'low side' and both the PIR electronics and the module electronics are turned on, both will see a dead short.

This would not be good.

:)

--Winston

(switch in) is shown externally connected

and the triac is internally connected

As long as the automation module is

deactivated, I see no way to cause damage

neutral. Then, of course, the switch would short

place of the floodlights for testing.

OK, then it looks like the PIR floodlight fixture and the automation security module are both 'high side' switches and they can power the same set of lights with no need to worry about a short caused by a 'high side' - 'low side' misunderstanding if they are connected hot to hot and neutral to neutral.

Thanks for clearing that up, Paul.

--Winston

Yes!! If one side of the bulbs is connected always and forever to the neutral then either Module or Motion will have to switch the Hot (or High Side) to turn them ON. Therefore no conflict is possible.

Les

ABLE1 wrote: (...)

then either Module or Motion will have to

possible.

Let us know how the test goes, y'hear, Les?

:)

--Winston

OH! Yes. Quite. Thanks!

I got the idea that the automation module and the PIR floodlight would live in the same electrical box with only one hot available. Perhaps that is not the case.

I also don't know if a carrier-current signal injected into the 'L2' side will always be sensed on the 'L1' side or if we will need a 'bridge' circuit in case the security light and it's control are on opposite split phases:

Les, please confirm that the control and all security lights are on the same split phase or that you have a bridge installed?

--Winston

Confirmed!! All individual motions and modules with lamps are in the same box. All units are fed from the same switch and the same breaker which places them on the same phase. All that being said conflicts ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. Unless the Sun Spots and Sun Tornados adversely effect the magnetic poles. :-)

Les

(...)

All units are fed from the same switch

conflicts ain't gonna happen in my

poles. :-)

Cool!

--Winston

Our work is done here, then.

Once again we have used our super-powers for Good.

To the Fieldmobile, John?

--Winston

Thanks to 'Ye All' for the brainstorming session. It was good for me. Hope it was good for ya'll. Once in a while a plan does come together but the course may not be a straight line. May each that participated have blue skies and happy electrons. I shall now go back under my lurking rock........................... :-)

Les

(...)

was good for ya'll. Once in a while a plan

participated have blue skies and happy

rock........................... :-)

:)

--Winston

Hello all again,

I am back with a little follow up on current status. Yesterday I installed all the modules (6 ea) in the box at each motion head and flood lights. Wired as I should have in the first place by connecting the output of the motion head with the output of the module to the hot side of the bulbs. Capped the module sense wire(not used) Power up and all worked as desired and most important NO SMOKE. :-)

Again thanks for all the extra brain juices that were thrown my way. Very helpful and it was a pleasure conversing with all.

Have a good Easter weekend where ever you may be. Give yourselves a "ATTABOY" badge.

Thanks,

Les

the modules (6 ea) in the box at each

connecting the output of the motion head with

wire(not used) Power up and all worked as

helpful and it was a pleasure conversing with

badge.

Paul and John, one USENET Attaboy each.

I shall covet mine until it is time to cash it in. (Figure Wednesday around 2:30 PM.)

Good going, Les!

--Winston

I shall place my Attaboy next to my collection of Round Tuits. If one should collect 1000 Attaboys, would that be a Femtaboy?

Yes, it was good to have been able to find a working solution and = receive=20 good feedback from the OP and all who helped. Hopefully this good deed = will=20 escape the wrath of Murphy's laws and remain unpunished!

Paul

"ATTABOY" badge.

Well, yes.

Luckily you can wait a year and let inflation do that without any further effort on your part. :)

feedback from the OP and all who helped.

unpunished!

Hear hear!

--Winston