Downed power lines

Ok, so it's hypothetical, but that doesn't change the answer! There are a dozen or more variables involed in such a scenario, any one of which could kill you. Your question is just to general to give an answer other than don't touch it. Even if you have a detailed hypthetical scenario, one simple overlooked detail is enough to kill you.

Hypthetically speaking, attempting to ground the wire is probably the

If I was in that hypthetical scenario and I just *had* get to across those power lines, I would not even think about grounding them, or moving them with a long wooden stick or whatever, I'd probably just take a big running jump and attempt to clear them. After I have checked there isn't a breaker down the street, another way around etc.

I know that you think there must be a "technical" answer to your "hypothetical" question, but there just isn't, the scenario's are just too complex. The best technical answer is simply "avoid at all costs". Try to live with that.

Dave :)

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:36:30 GMT, in message , scribed:

Better re-read what I said about step potential. It's got nothing to do with the hair on your head. Hair on your balls, maybe, if you had any. It comes in around thirteen.

That is where you are completely wrong. Any electrical engineer worth their salt would not even think about attempting to ground a high tension power line.

Sure, once the lines *are* grounded, it's potentially safe (no pun intended). But how you ground those lines properly depends on the individual scenario which simply cannot be throughly discussed here.

It *cannot* be reduced to a simple "general electricity question", this involves high voltage and high energy power lines where it is the practical implementation details that matter! You cannot extract and ignore the practical details with this sort of stuff.

Dave :)

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:10:32 GMT, in message , scribed:

You don't know squat about HV transmission lines. One can only hope that no-one, not even yourself, ever takes your talk on the subject seriously.

I just recently saw another mention of this somewhere else for about the

It also pretty much fits with what I know from associating with a lineman whose primary trade during his active years with Consumer's Power of Michigan was "High Voltage Lineman" - He worked on the *BIG* boys that *NEVER* go cold short of being cut. Working 500KVA lines with them hot was his bread and butter. He told me many a tale, and a LOT of practical info, and the advice to shuffle or hop meshes with his teachings, common sense, and what I already knew of electronics/electricity even before meeting him.

A 1V potential between contacts is no big deal - But what about a 500V? Or higher? Methinks "Ouch" be de answer.

Ayep! Applies equally to teardown night at the carnival, with the rain coming down in buckets: *DON'T TOUCH THE RIDES AND THE GROUND AT THE SAME TIME!* You need to get onto a ride? Jump to it. *DO NOT* Climb aboard it unless you want it to knock you on your ass. You need off a ride? Jump. Failure to follow those simple rules was a guaranteed trip to "DAMN! That one got me good!"-ville - Assuming you didn't v-fib.

One of the reasons we did our damnedest to avoid setups or teardowns in the rain if we could possibly help it. It was a stone bite trying to work on a hot ride after the cover and scenery came off, exposing all the various electrical gizmos, all at 240 and above.

I smell a business opportunity here. I will take advantage of the terror shown here by offering to deal with high voltage---for a price! An arm and a leg maybe. And the power company guys will go along once they find out what their service is worth to people who are to terrified to even allow speculative discussion.

and

body?

wire

are

are

and

to

be

somewhat

plutonium

something

It depends on who's forcing you. If you're better armed than they are, then don't.

Good Luck! Rich

What, are you upset that you've asked a "hypothetical" question, and got real answers?

Hypothetically, you could levitate over it, or move it by telekinesis.

But I'm wondering, in this hypothetical universe of yours, what could possibly possess any sane person to approach a downed power line, and what kind of creature would hold you at gunpoint and force you to electrocute yourself?

Thanks, Rich

Nah, he can't find the '11' on his keypad.

OK, here's the plain facts.

Hypothetically, you will die. In real life, you will die.

Is that simple enough for you?

Thanks, Rich

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:42:01 -0700, in message , Don Bruder scribed:

Trust me, it's a fact. Voltage gradients and step potential are very real, and potentially very dangerous. Here's an interesting presentation:

Or, just do a search on "soil resistivity" "step potential" and "fault current," and see all the interesting reading available!

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 00:09:43 GMT, in message , scribed:

You betcha. We could see how much my company would pay you (well, your beneficiaries) to demonstrate the falsehood of step potential, after they've spent untold millions educating their workers about its reality. We could maybe get three, four, or even five camera angles. You'd be famous! Heh. Well, maybe you could get away with that sort of spectacle in a third world country. Do you smell burned meat?

That is basically my point though. We learn about certain principles in basicl electronic courses but I'm curious as if they still hold on higher voltages. The breakdown voltage of air, I think, is 32kV/in... so if your dealing with something at 500kV then thats more then a foot away that it could "get" you.

What made me ask the question in the first place was I saw on tv some reporters walking over a HV line that was downed. Now maybe there was no power in it but I was curious as to why they did it when it was possible they could have died.(and there surely wasn't any electricians around to tell them it was ok to do so).

Now, some assholes here has to try and start a pathetic argument to get out of answering the real question I asked... maybe because they don't know and they just don't want to admitt it or not even post.

The main thing I'm after is how these people work around HV such as power lines. Obviously the easiest answer is just to shut off the power... but surely there would be a case where that might not be possible(its not hard to imagine... unless maybe you are John Fields).

Anyways, I can see the dogs have taken over this thread so its become useless but atleast some people like you are atleast offering some reasoning. Maybe its just to hard for John Fields to think about hypotheticals?

Sorry, I can't discuss valuable proprietary info, except to say tools and techniques can be developed to deal with anything, (unless you naysay before you try). The power company already deals with downed power lines so don't tell me, or anybody, that it can't be done. The power company already deals with downed power lines so don't tell me, or anybody, that it can't be done. The power company already deals with downed power lines so don't tell me, or anybody, that it can't be done. Everybody except some of the people in this newsgroup knows that the power company deals with downed power lines and IT CAN BE DONE.

Take a look at the big 500KV power lines and take note of how they have insulators that are a *lot* longer than a foot. Notice also how the ceramic isulators aren't just straight, they are bell shaped, that is designed to create an even longer path that the voltage must break down over.

What makes power lines different is the *massive* amounts of power available, power that can make metal and human bodies explode. Serious stuff, and a lot different to lower voltage stuff. Your power point mains is dangerous enough, if you accidently short it out it can easily blow a hole in your screwdriver or cutters etc.

That is why your suggestion of trying to ground a live cable is just shear madness, even hypothetically speaking.

They did it because they are dumb-ass TV reporters, their IQ does not reach triple digits.

We have answered your question. *Don't* attempt to ground the cable! Keep away until they power can be safely shut off.

They not only isolate the power at multiple ends, they also *properly* ground the cables *after* they have been shut off, just in case someone gets through all the safeguards (multiple padlocks) and turns the power back on, or another live cable falls on the one they are working on etc. Dave :)

What are you missing !!!

You failed to account for the powerful Magnetic Fields generated by an ARCING conductor !

I once witnessed a downed power line on a Main street in a big city. It whipped like an angry snake every time it shorted to Ground.

If this wire was not grounded it would appear totally harmless, once it completed a circuit, it would be to late to beat a hasty retreat.

I once attempted to Arc Weld using a CARBON rod and a 12 Volt battery and was surprised by the reaction of the battery cables to the Current Flow.

Yukio YANO

Helicopter, not from the power Line.

He failed to ground himself to the power line !!!

Yukio YANO

"Abstract Dissonance" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

Hypotheticals can be tricky to answer and pose danger. It's possible that some impressionable person reads the answers and comes across the hypothetical situation you described and attempts to implement the solution. How do you ground the wire? Well, first you pick it up...

Oh, and MacGyver would probably go under the conviently placed truck that shelters him from the power lines, then he'd use the power as a voltage source for some explosion with some conviently abandoned science lab where they didn't take all the stuff. (At times, it got a little /too/ convient.)

Puckdropper