Does the PICKit 2 support ICSP ?

Of course, that is what the pic kit is all about about. From my experience with it, it is pretty simple to use. The software could be better as it doesn't give you many details and the hardware is somewhat overpriced(look at the schematics of it) and cheaply made but it does seem to do the job very easily.

Unfortunately it doesn't do ICD yet because MPLab doesn't support it. Supposedly it will in the future.

If you plan on programing a lot of pics its probably worth it though(pretty much being the cheapest commercial programmer). But if your just trying to program a few chips here and there then you can do it yourself with freely available software and very simple and cheap hardware circuits. (although none support the newer pic24's AFAIK)

So far I've spent the whole week trying to get a straight answer out of Microchip sales, so I thought if I find out what the minimum list of parts I need to order to use a ICSP lead directly to the target board without the cost of the myriad of header boards for all the different PICs.

Its hard to tell from the sales literature and data sheets but it looks like a USB lead, a plastic box which is the PICKit 2 and a circuit board with a row of pins that slot into the PICKit 2, some drawings also show a small pod that may possibly be used with an ICSP lead, I don't want the SMD PCB which looks like its intended to be used once then replaced - all I want is to connect a PICKit 2 to the final project target board with an ICSP lead.

I pic kit 2 will do what you want. You have a header that essentially runs to the pins of the pic that you want to program. It can supply the power if needed too.

What I did was was make my own connector cause I didn't want to order the demo boards. The connector on the pic kit for the icsp is 6 pin female connector. Not sure what they are called but I simply ripped some pins off a damage mother board and made my own connector. It doesn't look pretty and slips some times but does the job(I'm sure you could make one and probably nicer than mine).

What I suggest is that you look on there site for the pic kit 2 documents as they explain everything. There are some issues when interfacing ICSP with a circuit that uses the same pins because the other circuit could interfer with it. (so either dedicate the pins on the pic for icsp programming or look at the pic kit datasheets/user guides/app notes)

Its really not that difficult and I think you might be making it more complicated than it is. You will obviously need some way to connect the programmer to the chip but pretty much thats up to you and is extremely easy. I say if thats your only issue then buy the pic kit 2 and then deal with it once you get it. Chances are you'll see that it's not hard and can figure something out for your needs.

BTW, the circuit board stuff is the demo board which is seperate if you just buy the pic kit standalone.... which is just a cd, pic kit 2 programmer, and USB cable and costs about 35$. If you buy the demo board then thats like 50$ or something total but you'll see need to make an interface somehow(might copy there design or just hack it like I did).

BTW, There are no different headers for different pics. Each pic has 2 pins for ICSP(although sometimes duplicated for easier routing), nMCLR, Voltage, and voltage regulation. Depending on the pic it can be easier or hard to deal with but ultimately its just a routing and header issue. (you can always rig an adapter from the pic kit 2 to the pcb if you use something that is directly incompatible with the pic kit 2)

You can also get the schematics for the demo board and see what they did for ICSP. It almost is essentially just connecting the header pins to the various pins on the pic but there is that issue I mented earlier.

I think you think that the demo board has to be used to program a pic and that is not the case. Get the standalone pic kit 2 programmer and you'll be able to program any pic in no time. (You will have to rig a way to get the signals from the pic kit 2 ICSP header to the pins on the pic but that could be as simple as using a few wires and inserting them into the female header of the pic kit.)

Jon

Thanks for explaining it, I've spent a whole week trying to get a straight answer out of the burger flippers at Microchip sales!

NP. I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to do but if you got a bread board, some wire, a few tantalum caps(for some of the newer end pics) then you shouldn't have a problem program most, if not all, the pics supported by the pic kit 2. Although with just wire you'll have to rig some kinda header to make it work but its not all that difficult.

My previous understanding was that the development area pcb that slots into the PICKit 2 is a SMD only experimenters board, I still use only through-hole components so I figured the best way would be not to use the development area and programme the MCU via ICSP, When I asked Microchip sales what I needed to do ICSP with a PICKit 2 they sent me a link to pictures of numerous header boards for various MCUs that slot into the end of the PICKit 2.

This would be a strip board with the basics like the crystal and GND + Vdd + Vpp rails needed with a 6 pin header for the ICSP lead, or in the future a finished project board with an ICSP connector.

What I regard as the established standard ICSP connector, has 6 pins - one pin is snipped to act as a key to prevent plug reversal leaving 5 wires: GND, Vdd, Vpp, PGD & PGC.

No, one is an AUX which I think is auxillary power IIRC. I don't use it for programming though. But the rest of pins are correct. As far as interfacing with the pic to be programming, its just a matter of connecting those pins on the pic kit 2 to the appropriate pins on the pic. If the pic is on some board and that board has some icsp connecter then you could easily rig something up so it will work.

I have no experience with all the demo and daughter boards but I imagine it can't be all that complex. You might not find a "pretty" solution but I'm sure you could rig something up in 5 mins if you have to.

if you goto

all those boards that connect to the pic kit 2 are just pcb's with a pic on them for easy programming/debugging/experimenting. They are not needed.

If you know how to program, know how to solder, have a breadboard, a few pic's, and some wire then you can program those pic's.

You see you can buy the demo board seperately. You do not need them to program a pic. All you need is the pic kit 2.

You can see the ICSP header on the boards though. They are 6 pins and have the various functionality you mentioned.

BTW, if you scroll down there is all the files you need. You can see the schematics and stuff too.

Thanks - I found those, the pinout diagrams make everything clear. What isn't clear is why Microchip couldn't just tell me that all I need for what I want to do, is the standalone PICKit 2 !

lol. Don't know. Could be many reasons. Maybe they would rather you believe that you needed more than just the pic kit 2 so you would buy more.

Also realize that you can do the exact same thing with just a pc and a few components(maybe 5$ worth) and program most of pic's. In a weekend or two you can probably build a pic programmer. The software is done for you and there are a lot of schematics for different programmers. Essentialy the main issue is that you have to have an external power source(or two) for the various voltages(I used a bench supply before I got the pic kit) and a few components(either a simple oc tri state and a transistor or two or a few mosfets and resistors).

If you just want to start programing pics then probably just buying it is the way to go but want to know a little more then you can do it yourself quite easily and cheaper(although it won't look as nice).

Jon

The main issue is the number of devices supported by any given programmer and whether the list is updated as new devices appear. There are other issues too, the Velleman K8048 which I have only has 8, 18 & 28 pin sockets which are all 0.3" so any 0.6" devices that may be supported will require an ICSP header board, as it happens the K8048 makes the same non-standard use of the RS232 I/F as the Tait style programmers so I assume its probably possible to use the associated programmer software with the K8048. Unfortunately the Tait websites have notices that they will no longer be updated and the Tait inspired Serpic 2 programmer which is almost identical to the K8048, except additional support for AVR couldn't be found last time I searched for it. Hopefully it is easier to keep a native Microchip programmer up to date.

I'm not sure about the other programmers. The pic kit 2 doesn't use sockets so you don't have to worry to much about that. OTH you will have to somehow connect the header to the pic you want to program. I seriously doubt you'll have an issue with it.

If you are just wanting to program pic's(and a few other devices that it supports) as a "hobby" then its probably the way to go. The programmer can be updated to program any devices that support ICSP and I suppose if you really wanted you could modify the firmware to program other devices. Luckily you are given the schematics and source code to all the software to do that.

The pic kit 2 supports all ICSP devices AFAIK except the latest devices. It also cannot be used with ICD in MPLAB for all the devices yet but MPLAB supposedly will eventually be updated for it.

I think if you compare the price with other programmers then its unbeatable.

If you still have doubts then why don't you post a specific comparision between the programmers you are looking at and your specific needs/application. I'm not sure if you want to just program pic's and if you are doing this in a production environment.

Jon

Thanks that pretty much answers my question.

The PICkit 2 is an excellent little ICD, but I too dislike the 6pin inline connector (and the ICD2 RJ-12) so I choose a 2x5 type IDC connector for the Junebug kit.