22-watt compact florescent bulbs VS 100 watt incandescent bulbs?

The lumens should be listed on the box the CFLs or light bulbs came in.

Typical Electric Lamp Wattage and Lumen Ratings:

It's subjective. The light is a different tone of white. Soe people (or some conditions) perceive this to be dimmer.

I use LED lighting anyway.

Don't you mean ones before "coiled coil" was invented?

So do incandescents don't they?

--
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http://www.petersphotos.com

A guy was playing golf at some fancy club, and just as he was about to tee off ,
a cart drives up.  These two guys get out and hand him a note saying, "We are
deaf, may we play through?"
The guy says, "Hell no!", and tees off anyway.
Later on (after six shots), he is on the green about to putt when a ball comes
from out of nowhere and misses his head by an inch.  "What the @#$%^&*?",  he
yells.
The deaf guys drive up and hand him a note.  On the note is written, "FORE".

Fluorescents are not ideal in these situations:

1. You turn them on and off frequently throughout the day
2. They are on a dimmer switch
3. They are on a timer
4. They are in a humid environment (bathroom)
5. They are in an enclosed environment (no ventilation)

In those situations the light bulb will burn out faster, requiring you to buy another bulb.

One house even burned down because of CFLs on a dimmer switch:

But if they are on for about an hour each day, continuously, they're great.

Michael

That page mentions a lot, with exception of CFLs.

Now, in my experience, lumens for 120V shortest-common-life "soft white", "standard" and clear incandescents,

and for CFLs "warmed up and in favorable conditions and broken in for

100 hours but otherwise brand-new" (my words and in my experience):

Incandescent:

15 watts: 105-125 lumens 25 watts: 180-235 lumens 40 watts: 445-505 lumens 60 watts: 845-890 lumens 75 watts: 1150-1190 lumens 100 watts: 1670-1750 lumens 150 watts: 2780-2880 lumens 200 watts: About 3800-3900 lumens 300 watts: 6200-6300 lumens

CFL, best I have known for various wattages:

9 watts: 450 lumens, "in 40 watt incandescent range" 10 watts: 500 lumens, "fully 40 watt incandescent equivalent"

13 watts: 850 lumens, "in 60 watt incandescent range"

14-15 watts: 900 lumens, "fully 60 watt incandescent equivalent"

18-20 watts: 1200 lumens at best, "full 75 watt equivalent" - but many of these wattages achieve as low as 1100 lumens.

23-24 watts: 1600 lumens at best, "in 100 watt incandescent range"

25-26 watts, best examples in my experience: 1750 lumens, "full 100 watt incandescent equivalence" (Some ballastless 26 watt ones - 26 watts *after ballast losses* - can achieve 1800 lumens.)

28 watts: I have yet to see doing better than 26 watts.

30 watts: About 2,000 lumens - closer to "100 watt equivalent" than to "150 watt equivalent"

42-45 watts: 2600-2800 lumens, "in the range of 150 watt incandescent equivalence"

Keep in mind that CFLs are prone to the following factors that have some fair chance of derating their "effective incandescent equivalence" to that of next-lower-wattage incandescent, or at least by half such extent:

• - The phosphor degrades with use, and the degradation can get a little significant after a couple thousand operating hours. Figure actual lumens "average throughout the CFL's life" about 10% less than that achieved after the 100 operating hour break-in period.

• - The CFL may experience non-optimal ambient temperature that may cause it to run a little dimmer than it is "supposed to".

• - Warmest color CFLs have scotopic/photopic ratio somewhat less than that of shorter-life gas-filled incandescents, and at ilumination levels typical of or less than that of typical home indoor ambient lighting this can be significant. I figure mostly expect 5-8% less from CFL on that count.

• - The CFL may not work as well with luminaire ("fixture") optical scheme as an incandescent does if the luminaire was designed for incandescent.

Cooler color (higher color temperature) more-scotopic-favorable CFLs tend to have slightly lower photometric/photopic output. Six of one, half-dozen of the other!

So overall, to replace an incandescent with a CFL, you may want the CFL to have wattage maybe 1/3 that of the incandescent rather than the 1/4 that they "should be good for". This means that a CFL of 18-20 watts may successfully replace a 60 watt incandescent rather than a 75 watt incandescent, or 18-20 watt CFL may replace a 60 watt incandescent instead of 13-15 watt CFL replacing a 60 watt incandescent. And a 23-24 watt CFL may replace a 75 watt incandescent rather than replacing a 100 watt one (or rather than 18-20 watt CFL replacing a 75 watt incandescent).

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

conditions) perceive this to be dimmer.

Coiled-coil has been around at least since the early 1970's, probably at least a decade or two longer than that!

Actually, CFLs and fluorescents in general tend to fade over their life expectancy more than at least gas-filled incandescents do.

Watch for the "design lumens" specified separately from "initial lumens" when both are specified in a "lamp catalog". Please keep in mind that "initial lumens" is immediately after a 100 operating hour break-in period. It appears to me that "design lumens" is what to expect at roughly 40% of the way through "catalog value life expectancy" (my words).

And not only fluorescents (CFL or otherwise) - I find in my experience that HID lamps fade more than incandescents do and many have "design lumens" or "mean lumens" or the like.

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

My experience in USA "120V land" is that "better" 18-20 watt CFL at optimum temperature with no aging past a 100 operating-hour break-in period is a good match to "better" 75 watt incandescents.

And that it takes 25-26 watts for a CFL to "fully match a 100W 'standard' incandescent", with 28 watts no better and 30 watt CFLs "slightly brighter".

CFLs have major real bigtime advantage in energy efficiency - sadly often-exaggerated to an extent leading to disappointment and dissatisfaction! I see so much hype of LED lighting to even-worse-extent! Ever wonder why lighting-installing electricians are stodgier conservatives than Ronald Reagan on the job, even if voting for Obama?

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

some conditions) perceive this to be dimmer.

When I was about 10 years old (mid 80s), I remember having the choice of standard and coiled coil bulbs. The coiled coil ones were advertised as lasting longer and (I think) being brighter for the same power input.

LEDs don't fade at all during their 30,000 hour life.....

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http://www.petersphotos.com

A little boy squirrel and a little girl squirrel were chattering and playing
around when up comes a fox.
The girl squirrel dashed up a tree, but the boy squirrel stood his ground.
"You\'re pretty brave," said the fox. "Usually squirrels are afraid of me and run
to the nearest tree!"
"Listen, bud," snarled the boy squirrel. "Did you ever try to climb a tree when
you were in love?"

LEDs fade.

I've not observed this. They either work or they don't. At a certain point they just die open or short circuit.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com   
http://www.petersphotos.com

After Saddam was captured, eight people were killed and almost
80 wounded by shots fired in the air during celebrations
of the capture.

they just die open or short circuit.

--
http://www.lunaraccents.com/educational-white-LED-life.html

Read the first paragraph.

JF

they just die open or short circuit.

I see. Probably never seen one get old enough. They have such a long lifespan anyway.

What I have seen are ultrabright LEDs failing prematurely. They don't seem to be very reliable yet. I'm having more luck with ones imported from Japan than British ones. Even then, green seems to be a problem. I notice the lights which fail seem to have different brightnesses for each LED, perhaps they are not precisely matched, so some in each series set are overloading the rest?

--
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com   
http://www.petersphotos.com

When Darrell Brown, 48, called IBM customer support for help with a balky laptop
computer, the tech entered the serial number of the machine and up flashed a
note that the computer had been reported stolen in a burglary.
The tech notified police in Lincoln, Neb., and gave them the man\'s address.
Police executed a search warrant, recovered the stolen laptop and a gun reported
stolen 16 years ago, and arrested Brown on suspicion of burglary. (Lincoln
Journal Star)
...Proving that customer support will do anything it can to avoid actually
repairing busted laptops.

they just die open or short circuit.

anyway.

--
If you make sure that the current into the series set isn\'t greater than
the rated current of the LEDs then overloading will be impossible since
the current into the string will be the current through any and all of
the LEDs.


JF

point they just die open or short circuit.

lifespan anyway.

I'm referring to commercial prewired ones, as it removes the hassle of creating the housing.

I assume they've done the calculations, but not all LEDs are produced alike, so some sets will need a different resistor. It's not practical in mass production to test every single one and change the resistor.

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Giuseppi walks into work, and he says, "Ey, Tony! You know who\'s-a George
Washington?"
Tony says, "No, Giuseppi, who\'s-a George Washington?"
He says, "Hah! George-a Washington\'s the first-a President of-a United States.
I\'m-a go to night school, learn all about-a United States, and become-a U.S.-a
citizen."
A couple of days later, Giuseppi walks into work and says, "Ey, Tony, you know
who\'s-a Abraham Lincoln?"
Tony says, "No, Giuseppi, who\'s-a Abraham Lincoln?"
He says, "Hah! Abaham-a Lincoln is-a sixteenth President of-a the United States.
I\'m-a go to night school, learn all about-a United States, and become-a U.S.-a
citizen."
A guy in the back of the shop yells, "Yo, Giuseppi . . . you know who Fishlips
Lorenzo is?"
He says, "No. Who\'s-a Fishlips Lorenzo is?"
The guy yells, "That\'s the guy who\'s bangin\' your wife while you\'re in night
school."

Both singly and doubly coiled ones are still available today. The "industrial service"/"shock resistant"/"vibration resistant"/"rough duty" ones tend to have singly coiled filaments. I also saw in recent years in a few locations Sylvania "economy" incandescents, with both light output and life expectancy reduced slightly compared to the "standard" ones.

That is absolutely *not* true.

The usual figure has been 100,000 hours to fade by half. And most white ones fare worse because most white ones have phosphors that *will* degrade. The very best white ones are specified to degrade by no more than 30% at 50,000 hours, and that is generally at a junction temperature somewhere below absolute maximum.

Some rather decent white LEDs even have life expectancy of only 10,000 hours. I have seen cheaper ones fade by about half in about 4,000 hours.

"Industry Best Lumen Maintenance 50,000 hours life at 1000 mA with 70% lumen maintenance" (on page 1)

"Philips Lumileds projects that white LUXEON K2 with TFFC products will deliver, on average, 70% lumen maintenance at 50,000 hours of operation at a forward current of 1000mA. This projection is based on constant current operation with junction temperture maintained at or below 120°C."

(on page 3)

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

Not what I'd call "economy". Most of the cost of an incandescent is the electricity, so reducing the output is not good.

Ultrabrights are rated at 50,000, and 30,000 when in a mounting with others, hence warmer.

I'll stick with mixing red green and blues then. Makes the room look nicer anyway.

I don't heat the house much, so that should be ok :-)

Ouch!

Just done some calculations on that. Those are extremely inefficient. They don't do much better than an incandescent! The ones I get pre-made from Japan are 12 times as effiecient as an incandescent.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com   
http://www.petersphotos.com

The two young teens were making out in the family room. The
girl\'s Mother calls from the top of the stairs, "Honey is that boy
there yet?"

She replies breathlessly, "No Ma.  Not yet.  But he\'s getting there."

I certainly agree here! I'm glad those "economy" cheapies by Sylvania are not common!

Can you provide a link to mfr, part number and a datasheet?

The most efficient laboratory prototype LED that I have heard of achieved 150 lumens/watt at a usual amount of current (20 mA).

Another achieced about 170 lumens/watt at an efficiency-maximizing current of a few percent of the amount it was made for, and 136 lumens/watt at the "characterizing current". 136 lumens/watt is the world record for a single chip LED at 350 mA.

The most efficient LEDs on the market are achieving 100 lumens/watt at usual amounts of current, and maybe 120 when moderately severely underpowered.

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

Yes, I think you're about right there.

Now try buying one ?

I found the 'small print' btw. It is actually still on a recent Philips CFL box. It says .... "Uses 5 times less electricity.* Light output measured according to IEC 969 standards, compared to a 1000 hr SOFT COLOUR (my caps) bulb of similar ligh output".

Soft colour = lower efficiency. FOUR times less is nearer the mark when compared to standard GLS bulbs.

*SOFTONE* ! That was the brand name. See this

and this

Graham

standard and coiled coil bulbs. The coiled coil ones were advertised as lasting longer and (I think) being brighter for the same power input.

I do recall 'coiled coil' being made an issue of but I reckoned it was more in the 70s. And they are brighter IIRC.

I agree from experience.

Sure ?

Graham

I thought so too. Else, what mechanism would mark end of life as semiconductors can go on for 100,000 power-on hrs plus ?

Graham