Wow, first lead-free victim: Microsoft Xbox 1 billion damage

Got an answer to my email already. Wow, that's impressive service. They must be working late over there.

Anyhow, they wrote back that it is indeed as I had thought. No hard data available. The lead-free solder issue is nothing more than an assumption since MS did not reveal root causes.

On a sunny day (Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:30:54 GMT) it happened Joerg wrote in :

OK, so I do not have to worry about other new stuff I am buying falling apart.... Yes, it is known MS does not reveal details, I have read a transcript of the MS conference where they acknowledged the problem and extended the warrantee.

Did they mention who 'the experts' were?

-)

, as

page:

It's likely to be subjective anyhow--was the egg too weak, or did you just drop it from too high? That is, was the failure because the solder broke (i.e., the material), or because it was made to break (i.e. thermal design)?

Cheers, James Arthur

apart....

I do worry about that, especially after seeing some RoHS products myself.

My point was the subject line, suggesting there was evidence that there is the first lead-free victim. There isn't any proof, at least nothing public.

No, he did not mention that. If you want to contact him click on the "hag" below the article and it'll show his full email address. Then you can ask him.

With solder there are ways to investigate that. Just like there are with the egg (testing shell strength, indentation etc.). I just don't like it when journalism hints a certain theory and then there is no meat behind it.

Yes, ding dong! The XBOX 360 is the first victim of the lead free industry move.

Get a clue. He is not talking about a person.

On Jul 12, 11:17 am, James Arthur wrote: > On Jul 12, 9:30 am, Joerg > wrote: >

Golly, I just thought they made their hardware to the same high standards as their software.......

GG

Yeah--ship bugs and Bill[sic] for the fix^H^H^Hupgrades, bugs=bucks. They've rudely discovered, though, that that model doesn't work for hardware. Strangely, people expect hardware to work!

Really, it's the designers' fault either way--if lead-free has special thermal difficulties, they should've designed their box to suit.

Cheers, James Arthur

Well, based on history I will for now assume their experts are right, and have some reservations about lead-free. You question their reporting, you find out their experts.

I'v been with heise a long time (years), and was a reader of C'T magazine for ten years I think, and if their experts came from that place chances are 99% they are right. I stopped buying C'T when much computer info appeared on the internet (say google took of). I still have their latest PS3 special edition here though :-)

I see that a bit differently. I see a strong statement is made in a magazine, I expect there to be evidence to back that up. Apparently there wasn't.

Oh well, glitches happen and not everything is perfect. I am not perfect either.

I used to read c't as well while in Europe. Out here you can't buy it. But I agree that in general Heise is a pretty good publisher.

I remember reading about Microsoft's XBOX environmental testing a few years ago, they had pictures of their testing chamber, it looked like someone when to home depot and bought some lumber and built it. I was thinking these people need to contract this stuff out, I guess I was right, anyway this was I think the article, but no pictures

Wrong....Microsoft is a victum of their own greed.

They shipped a product without sufficient testing.

Whether they used lead free solder or bubble gum to put the product together, they are responsible to make sure the product works as advertised.

They can make all the excuses they want but they sold a product to a public claiming certain capbilities. If they can't deliver, then it is their problem.

Maybe next time they will listen to the engineers instead of the marketeers.

TMT

Wrong. You are a victim of your own stupidity. Hell, you can't even spell the word. You must still be a teen aged adolescent twit.

Your mother gave birth to you and did not adequately flush your lame ass down the toilet.

No s*it. DO you actually think they do not know what their obligations are as a manufacturer?

That's usually the way it works, but just who the f*ck do you think you are enlightening here?

A complete, and utterly retarded speculation on your part.

I am quite sure that the engineers would never have released a product destined to have a thermal failure based on some stupid "marketeer's" instructions. It was more likely due to getting the product to market quickly, and long term testing was not able to be done.

That is the case with many consumer level products.

Commercial, industrial, and military products have different design, manufacturing, test, and quality assurance methodologies applied to them, and many consumer products have less restrictive manufacturing cycle methodologies applied to them.

So you may have gotten their obligation(s) right, but you missed the reason entirely.

Totally Moot Teasings?

On a sunny day (Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:35:12 -0700) it happened Too_Many_Tools wrote in :

Now that is strange, I have read an article that they had thousands of people working on xbox360, many of those engineers. Including temp testing / cycling and what not. Not all can be foreseen it seems?

But it takes a long time to do full life cycle life testing, and a bit of wisdom in determining what to put it through.

And then there is HALT testing, another Art itself, to do it correctly. Years ago, I went along, sure lets try it and see what we find. This was after thermal cycles, thermal shock, humidity, vibration testing, etc.

We found a few things, fixed them, even though most folks said it was an utterly insane test.

Over the next few years, the early units that went out, without the fixes we uncovered for failures during HALT testing, actually showed themselves in the field, many times over.

While I was the facility, I ran into engineers from Dell and Gateway, testing their equipment, their response was something along the lines of we cannot afford not to do it, with the slim margins, it doesn't take many field returns before the product is a wash for profit- and claiming it made a difference.

Depends... how much do you charge?

Nice groups add, Lamey sock puppet.

HEY FOLKS! Blu is really another Lamey sock puppet, wishing that he could actually get some ass, and attempting to make folks think he actually could!

Bwuahahahahhahahaha!

On a sunny day (Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:15:54 -0700) it happened "Leeper" wrote in :

Let's just hope MS reads sci.electronics.design...... ;-)

You're a goddamned liar. Are you saying that your name does not appear anywhere in all the files on your pathetic little PC?

I think you are too stupid to even know.