where can I go for prototyping?

Once you get a board designed, you can get them built here:

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Summarizes the links below. The guy has used some of the places.

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I do embedded software so I can help with the firmware once you're at that point.

Sincerely, Tom.

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Reply to
Tom
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Shawn,

If you have a patentable device, you should talk to a patent lawyer first.

Get started in the documentation first thing. As mentioned, you want to be sure you won't get sued because you got to carried away with the construction.

Time is on your side right now. Make sure you are protected, or you will be wasting money for nothing.

donald

PS: If you have an original idea and its patentable, you will be able to get someone else to build it for you. (after the patent)

Reply to
Donald

You might want to have a look at

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Don Lancaster's web site devoted to patent issues, before you go too far down that road.

Quoting from that site: "For most individuals and small scale startups, patents are virtually certain to result in a net loss of time, energy, money, and sanity. [...] the economic breakeven needed to recover patent costs is something between $12,000,000.00 and $40,000,000 in gross sales."

Reply to
Walter Harley

I have an idea for a new device, basically a new wireless access point, and need someone to make it for me.

I have taken an existing access point and modified it to my idea, but obviously a new design must be made since my current prototype is made from a currently pattented device.

I'm not an electronic engineer, I only know enough to do the modifications that I've done.

What I need done is a new circuit board designed, firmware written, and enclosure made.

All I have is the idea and a working prototype made from someone elses product. Any help on where to go next would be appreciated.

I've been googling all afternoon and I can't find any solid leads.

Thanks in advance.

-- Shawn Wilson

Reply to
Shawn Wilson

Hello Shawn,

The last part could potentially get you into trouble, in the form of a nasty and drawn-out legal dog fight.

That's ok, most of my clients are not EEs and I bet the same goes for other consultants. You have to find someone whom you can trust. This news groups was the right place to ask.

That kind of rules me out, there are people here who are better in writing firmware. If you think firmware is the lion's share of the work then also post in 'comp.arch.embedded'. That where the uC and DSP guys hang out.

Maybe the keywords weren't optimal. I'd start with a combination of 'consulting, electronics, product design, prototyping, consumer'.

Since you probably aren't part of a large corporation be prepared to pay a hefty up-front retainer before getting someone to put lots of hours into it. Just as you usually would have to at a lawyer's office.

If this is cost critical prepare yourself to go offshore with production. Else you may not be able to make any profit. I just priced out a new design and as usual tried to give domestic sources a first shot. That tooth was pulled when I was quoted a whopping 20 cents per hole (!) for CNC drilling for the pilot run. And this was regular thin plastics, nothing fancy. The molded parts were kind of ok in pricing but they really nail you with any extras.

Regards, Joerg

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Reply to
Joerg

--
What a crock of shit.

If the total cost of acquiring a patent is $10,000 and getting the
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Reply to
John Fields

Go to

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and do a search. You can find out what is out there (at least in terms of patents). New patents are posted every Tuesday.

Walter Harley's post about patents (Don Lancaster notes) is correct but... If you handle right, realize your limitations, you can do all right. I have worked both sides of the issues - for the company

- for the inventor

- for the aggrieved party

- for the defending party

Good luck, Dave

Reply to
onyx49

The patent owners are likely making a few pennies on a retail $50 unit except in some rare circumstances.

You don't get "picked up" by one of these stores, you use a channel professional to introduce you to that chain's buyers. The chain will then negotiate your margin down and give you an exceedingly onerous contract involving very high costs to you in the form of co-op advertising fees. They will likely require one or two free units per store for floor demos. There will be money flowing back to them at every step of the game.

Don't try to start with a big chain like this. You can sell $250K of merchandise through a chain like this, not receive a single dime from them, and still owe them $100K.

Reply to
zwsdotcom

Thank you all for your input. I don't plan on staying with the stolen stuff I'm working with now, it's just a proof of concept. I've sent emails to the people who own the proper patents for the device I've modified but have gotten no response. I was vague, but hoped to get a response of some kind.

My best bet at this point is to simply finish my proof of concept, document it fully, and patent it fully. Then I can openly try to sell the idea to those who already are tooled and making products like it.

Don't mistake my comment about products like it to mean it's not unique... it's just that a few key changes to some existing tech make for a huge benefit and a brand new device that doesn't replace the old stuff, but will be added along side.

Don't worry, I didn't take 'Walter Harley' serious...

I haven't read the article he mentioned yet, but here's an interesting thought... his low number was 12M in gross sales... ooooo scary number... No, actually that's not much actually in the grand scheme of things.

Think about it. Take your average $50 electronic device, surely the patent owner is making at least 5 bucks on it per unit... that can't be so much of a stretch, right?

To make the 12M gross sales, you need to sell 240,000 units. If you get a product into a nationwide chain like Wal-Mart or Staples or Office Max or Fry's etc... then you've got 50 states selling your product. You only need

4800 sales per state to make your 12M mark.

If you further break that down to only 10 stores in each state (not different stores, but physical locations) - then you get to 480 sales per store per state. You end up with 40 sales per month in a year. That's really not that scary, and is actually quite tiny compared to most anything on the shelf right now.

Yes, the big assumption is being picked up by one of those chains... but if you actually did get picked up by one of them you'd have hundreds of stores in each state selling your product. Surely you could expect at least 3 sales a week from each store for the first year... and beyond.

3 sales a week at each of 100 stores in each state for a year... hmmm... That's 780,000 sales in a year grossing me 3.9M. Is that worth the 10 grand for a patent? I'll have to sleep on it.

Not to mention that more than likely the real result will be the sale of the patent for a couple million... that's more than enough for me on this one. I'm not greedy, and I don't need to support a huge company. I have a good idea and want to see it on the shelf. If I make my first million because of it, that's just icing.

...he who dies with the most toys, still dies...

-- Shawn Wilson

Reply to
Shawn Wilson

Hello Shawn,

Be diligent with prior art research. That can take months but if you don't do it you might have your patent shot down. And if you don't have enough protective language in the contract with the entity you sold it to you could be sued by them. They may then want back their million bucks for product launch. Plus damages, plus, plus, plus.

A lil' dose of reality here: The gadget that sells for $49 at Best Buy (minus whatever mail-in promotion) is more likely produced in China for $5. I don't think the patent owner will see $5 of that ;-)

Umm ..., maybe you should start smaller.

Good luck ... and read the first response paragraph once more.

Regards, Joerg

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Reply to
Joerg

Well all my numbers there were obviously fake just to run through a mental excersize... I do realize that it's not a rosy picture once it's actually in the real world...

That's why the last part is probably what I'll end up doing for my first try. I'll get my patent in order first (with plenty of legal help) and then look to sell it to Linksys or D-Link or Belkin since they already have the distribution part down.

Once again, thanks for the input.

-- Shawn Wilson

Reply to
Shawn Wilson

Don Lancaster being one of the interested. The calculations are in the article. I'm reasonably confident in Don's ability to calculate.

He's not saying "patents are bogus". He's saying that for startups and solo inventors, patents are usually the wrong approach.

Reply to
Walter Harley

--
IME, a startup looking for venture capital funding won\'t get it
without at least a patent applied for.
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Reply to
John Fields

I once spoke with a man whose uncle modified a craburettor for smoother running (changed the shape of a cam I think) he sold the design back to Ford (or was it gm?) for a 10c cut on every carburettor made using his design hed did well, and I doubt the increased sales that would result hurt Ford either.

Bye. Jasen

Reply to
Jasen Betts

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