Thompson, did you miss this?

ABC story, which is more up to date.

formatting link

OR,

Mark Henle

Emergency personnel gather at the scene where an Arizona Department of Public Safety trooper was shot, Thursday, Jan. 12, 2017, at the scene of a rollover accident on Interstate 10 near Tonopah, Ariz. An Arizona state trooper stopped to help at a car wreck along the remote highway Thursday when he was shot and wounded in an ambush by a man who was bashing the officer's head against the pavement until a passing driver shot him to death, authorities said. The trooper suffered a severe wound to his shoulder and upper chest but he is expected to recover at a hospital. (Mark Henle/The Arizona Republic via AP) Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2017 8:02 pm | Updated: 8:31 pm, Thu Jan 12,

2017. Associated Press | 0 comments PHOENIX (AP) - A man who shot and wounded an Arizona state trooper Thursday along a remote highway and then started slamming the helpless officer's head into the pavement as the two struggled was shot to death by a passing driver, authorities said. Trooper Edward Andersson, a 27-year veteran of the Department of Public Safety, was shot in the right shoulder and chest in what authorities called an ambush and was in serious but stable condition after surgery at a Goodyear hospital. "My trooper would not be alive without his assistance," DPS Director Frank Milstead said of the driver who stopped. Arizona has a "defense of third person" law that allows someone to use deadly force against another who is threatening or injuring a third person. It was not unusual that the passing driver was armed in this gun-friendly state where honest citizens are able to exercise their second amendment rights to defend themselves, their family and others.. "Arizona was open-carry before it was a state," Charles Heller, co-founder of guns-rights group the Arizona Citizens Defense League, said of laws allowing people to carry firearms in public. "If you see a guy walking down the street in Tucson, Arizona, with a gun on, you don't think much of it. It's natural." The drama unfolded at an early-morning rollover wreck on Interstate 10 in the desert west of Phoenix that ejected and killed a woman. Authorities believe the man who shot Andersson was driving the car that crashed. Officials said they were trying to determine exactly what happened and that the investigation faced major hurdles with Andersson seriously injured and two others dead. Their identities were not immediately released. A separate driver reported gunfire and Andersson was responding to that call when he spotted the wreck and stopped, Milstead and DPS Capt. Damon Cecil said. Andersson was putting out flares when the suspect opened fire and then physically attacked the wounded trooper, Milstead said. Both Milstead and Cecil said was ambushed. The man was on top of the officer and "getting the better of him," slamming Andersson's head against the pavement, Milstead said. That's when the passing driver showed up and asked if the trooper needed help. Andersson said yes, and the passer-by went back to his vehicle, got his gun and told the suspect to stop the attack, Milstead said. When he didn't, the driver shot him. Prosecutors said they were not commenting yet on whether they will review the shooting by the driver because it is an ongoing investigation. Investigators were trying to determine how the rollover happened and whether the suspect was involved with the initial report of gunshots, officials said. Investigators plan to speak with the person who made that call. Milstead said he feared the worst when he headed to the hospital to check on Andersson. "He's incredibly fortunate to be here with us today," the director said.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Reply to
amdx
Loading thread data ...

[snip]

Apparently you missed my post...

Subject: OT: Arizona-style Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:27:38 -0700 Message-ID:

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at

formatting link
| 1962 |

I'm looking for work... see my website.

Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.

Reply to
Jim Thompson

Wow! I wish we had common-sense gun laws like that here in Britain. Here, if you try to defend yourself or others from harm, you face the very real prospect of ending up in jail yourself. God willing, this situation should improve when we get out of the clutches of the EU (which can't come soon enough).

Reply to
Cursitor Doom

Yep. Arizona ain't no Californica or New York >:-} ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Well, I had my doubts, that you would let the story go without comment, I should have looked. I apologized profusely. Did you note in the updated story, " The man who shot and severely beat an Arizona state trooper last week was a former member of the Mexican federal police who was in the country illegally, authorities said."

Mikek

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Reply to
amdx

Nope. I missed that. Figures. But the "solution" is amusing. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
Reply to
Jim Thompson

That's true:

formatting link

------(quote)--------

Although the risk of deadly shootings appears to have escalated, violence in the United States is trending downward. In 1995, there were

685 violent incidents per 100,000 people nationwide. By 2014, the national violent-crime rate had fallen to 366 violent crimes per 100,000 people. ...

  1. Arizona > Violent-crime rate: 399.9 per 100,000 (16th highest) > Murder and non-negligent manslaughter rate: 4.7 per 100,000 (20th highest) > Median household income: ,068 (21st lowest) > June unemployment rate: 5.8 percent (Ninth highest) Arizona is the 10th least peaceful state in the nation. In addition to an above-average violent crime rate, the incidences of property crime, larceny, and motor vehicle theft in Arizona are each among the 10 highest compared with other states. So far this year, data collection and research group Gun Violence Archive has tracked four mass shootings in the state in which a total of 12 people were killed. Just seven other states have had a higher number of deaths from mass shootings.

--------(end quote)-----------

So you are right Arizona is different, it is more violent (not by much though) than California or New York even thought the overall rate of violence is still declining in the USA.

John

Reply to
John Robertson

"Cursitor Doom" apparently isn't aware that self-defense is pretty narrowly defined, even in US states with "stand your ground" laws.

This was a clear-cut case and the scumbag is dead, good riddance. But what if a drunk punches you in a bar? Are you legally justified in using anything up to "deadly force" to "repel the attacker?" Definitely not in Massachusetts, and probably not even in Arizona.

If I punch the drunk back when I had the option to retreat, that's called "fighting", not-self defense, and that's illegal. In AZ they might not give a shit about the legal implications of most bar brawls, but what if I punch the drunk back and he trips, stumbles (no I don't imagine I'm tough enough to kill a man with one punch), falls into something and dies?

Maybe I'd get off on a "stand your ground" defense, maybe I'd do time for manslaughter, at least, who knows. It all depends on what the legal system and jury thinks - and for the most part I'll have no control over that. Do I want to put my life in the hands of some jurors too dumb to get out of jury duty? Hell no I don't.

Reply to
bitrex

Point is that the cases where defense-of-others is a valid defense are pretty clear cut, like this one. Nobody even in MA is ever going to prosecute anyone for shooting someone who was shooting a damn _cop_.

If it's not clear-cut like that to your mind, it probably means you're jumping into other people's fights trying to be a hero. Like a big dummy.

Reply to
bitrex

So does almost everywhere else.

"A witness to violent crime with a continuing threat of violence may well be justified in using extreme force to remove a threat of further violence."

formatting link

"This situation" is only your head. As usual.

--

John Devereux
Reply to
John Devereux

If dipshits had brains they'd study the statistics and realize that our high crime rate is due to ILLEGALS. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 

  The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and 
       the intelligent are full of doubt   

                                            -Bertrand Russell
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Study up. Actual story: A friend was accosted in a bar and pushed into a fist fight. My friend one-punched the cretin and killed him. My friend walked.

We make special effort to "one punch" leftists, particularly those from Massa2shits >:-} ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 

             I'm looking for work... see my website. 

     Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Too many ifs, buts and maybes for my liking. I wouldn't take the chance of sweating for a year for my trial to come up, only to place my fate in the hands of a group of cabbages with room temperature IQs whose primary concern is getting home in time to watch Hollyoaks.

I've often thought about what I'd do if I were driving out in the country in the middle of the night and saw a very young child wandering along the road alone. Obviously no way in the world am I going to stop and pick them up. But would I even report it to the police? No, I wouldn't. I'd just drive on by. That's the sad state of affairs here at least. You really do not want to be the last person to see a young child alive, because our wonderful police will fit you up for murder if they can't trace the true culprit within a reasonable period of time (always when the public pressure grows intolerable for them). But as I say, hopefully when we get out of the EU, sanity may prevail again, god willing.

Reply to
Cursitor Doom

I think you need to get up to date on Good Samaritan laws in the UK:

formatting link

formatting link

Things aren't as bleak as you may think...

You may also recall an expression "United we stand, divided we fall" - I think of that when I hear of Bexit...Why does the US president-elect and Russia's Putin support Brexit? Because it weakens both the UK and the EU.

Duh!

John

Reply to
John Robertson

As usual, you haven't a clue.

Reply to
krw

You said you admired Bertrand Russell for his realism. For my part I'm glad that MA doesn't allow concealed carry without jumping through a lot of hoops, because let's face it - most people aren't up to the responsibility, and will get a false sense of security that has a good chance of getting them killed.

There are only two types of tough guys in the world - the kind that stay humble, and the kind that end up getting dead or in prison.

Some guys here strike me as the type that like the big talk, but don't have much reality picture of what the street is actually like. A privileged upbringing has a tendency to do that.

Reply to
bitrex

All of what I wrote is true, and any defense lawyer will tell you the

Reply to
bitrex

You're talking like a young black man in America, now.

Reply to
bitrex

So what exactly do you think the law should say?

Should saying "it was self defence officer" always be automatically accepted, without question?

Put yourself in the position of someone who has been attacked or in the position of having had a family member killed. To what extent do you think an attackers claim of "self-defense" should be investigated? Do they automatically get off because they say the magic words "self defense"? If the police and CPS were not happy with their explanation, would you not want a trial?

I'm pretty sure I would (and call the police etc) but I understand where you are coming from.

It is usually the "public pressure" whipped up by the Daily Mail and their hysterical ilk that inflames witch-hunts. The one I remember is the Joanna Yates murder and the subsequent stitching up of the innocent landlord. People jump to conclusions without bothering to think about other explanations or finding out the evidence. (Sound familiar..?)

I don't see how this will help the phenomenon of witch-hunts or "moral panics" of any kind. E.g. the "EU human rights laws" are usually blamed for making it *harder* to convict people when there is questionable evidence. Exiting the EU removes the final level of oversight restricting government over-reach and witch-hunt-of-the-day driven state abuses.

--

John Devereux
Reply to
John Devereux

Nah, these dippys do indeed think they're so special that they should be allowed to cap anyone they like and get let off because they're them.

Reply to
bitrex

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.