Third harmonic distortion

Jul 20, 2011 98 Replies

Beware of those HP DSAs. They grossly underestimate THD. The problem with using DSP to measure THD is the data converter has to handle all the signal of the fundamental. Unless the DUT is of very poor quality (high THD), you end up measuring the quality of the ADC in the DSA. Otherwise, I like that family of analyzers. The original instrument (3562), had a 13 bit converters with programmable gain front end.

What you are really supposed to be doing with the "notch" type analyzers is studying the residual. You can learn a lot about the mechanics of the distortion if you compare the input signal with the residual. That is, if the residual is large at the zero crossing, then the distortion is probably related to an AB stage. If the residual is large at the excursions, then it is related to say a current source out of compliance, or similar signal swing problems.

Playing the distortion numbers game gets a bit silly after a while, But if you can use the residual to make simple improvements to the circuit, then it is worth it. Getting a number for the sake of a number is just specmanship.

Exactly.

Back when I did audio stuff, switchers not amps, I used a THD meter with a scope output. On one project it allowed me to push THD down from -85dB to -100dB by removing residual 100Hz hum from the pcb layout.

"Raveninghorde"

** Absolutely.

The hum component you see riding on a THD residual is not the same as ordinary background hum - cos the amp is delivering full power during the test. Get that down to SFA and you have done something.

Another test is to look at residual hum and harmonics coming from the UNDRIVEN channel of a stereo amp - that ought to be SFA too.

Achieve both and you have a product.

..... Phil

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Yeah, but you actually reduced the SINAD, not THD.

According to

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"For a given input frequency and amplitude, THD+N is equal to SINAD, provided that both measurements are made over the same bandwidth."

THD+N

-- Paul Hovnanian mailto: snipped-for-privacy@Hovnanian.com

------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows Freedom Day: a holiday that moves each year, the date of which is calculated by adding up the total amount of time a typical person must spend restarting windows and then determining how many work weeks that would correspond to. -- Trygve Lode

I think I understand what your are saying. Using a bridge as Phil H. indicated, leaves everything (noise, hum, etc) except the fundamental. That has to be THD+N remaining and measured. That's SINAD.

So, my HP 331A Distortion Analyzer is really a SINAD meter :-(

But, after all, Phil H. is correct about "If that's the definition used in the field, you gotta use that. I'd not like to tell someone that my Distortion Analyzer is really a SINAD meter, even if it is.

Ding!

The idiot (miso)is in the wrong realm, and he likes big words which he thinks he knows the meanings of.

There are a few bugs in it, that's true--the worst one is that when you're using the flat-top window, it computes the wrong noise PSD--and not mildly wrong, wrong by like 2.5 dB. I was snookered by that one until I calibrated it using a photocurrent, where I knew the noise level

*a priori*. OTOH it's a very nice box, especially when you get it for 1 cent on the dollar. :) 2009-2011 has been a great time to furnish a lab, I can tell you. The post-WW2 surplus bonanza has _nothing_ on it. (Of course 2009 was considerably cheaper than 2011, but I for one don't miss it!)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

/bin/sh: ispell: command not found On a sunny day (Fri, 22 Jul 2011 17:19:25 -0700) it happened "Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in :

------------------------------------------------------------------

I am under the impression, as Microsoft now is in the run for holding the most changes to the Linux kernel, and is buying via other companies all sort of related 'patents', that: We will see a 'Microsoft Linux' any time soon. They now use the philosphy: 'If you cannot beat then, join them'. Perhaps they may buy Suse, or RatHead, and after making distro after distro with ever more non standard mods (RatHead would be just to company to buy for that), that would finally claim 'Ownership' of the Linux kernel code, with the arguments they contributed most to it.

"John S*****ad"

** A pile of half witted drivel written by some pimply faced compewter geek.

Like you.

.... Phil

that),

arguments

Nothing new, it's always been number one in Microsoft's playbook: Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish.

"John S*****ad"

** Bollocks.

SINAD is an RF communications term.

Tell all the f****it compewter geeks that CONTEXT matters.

... Phil

If you think it's wrong, you _could_ edit it. I've done that a couple of times to correct Wikipedia, and it's pretty painless.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

that),

arguments

You're one of those guess as you go idiots.

If MS wanted to be on the Linux bus, they would not have to BUY ANY distro. They would simply make their own spin, AND they would likely do it better than ANY of the current CRAP (crop) of "products".

You are an idiot to think that they would BUY anything if they did not have to.

The best WindIX would be like Knoppix. Boots on anything (practically). Install it on a protected SSD partition and have it save the settings for whatever it got booted on.

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arguments

AlwaysWrong, is as usual,...

Actually, after looking at the equations for each (THD+N and SINAD), I disagree with the above statement. I cannot algebraically manipulate them to be equal.

On a sunny day (Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:35:27 -0500) it happened " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote in :

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arguments

I was thinking about some other comment you made about not catching falling soldering irons. Sort of a self -preservation thing. I remembered that that was part of some psychological test... The way it would go would be: You are pilot in an airplane with 100 passengers. You are the only one with a parachute, and the engines fail. will you:

1) jump 2) stay in the plane and try to land it somewhere.

I'd take 1) ;-) hehe

that),

arguments

soldering irons.

1)I would hope most people would say 2), but unless you've been there.... 2) At least you're honest. 3) Chesley Sullenberger did it, though he didn't really have the same options. ;-)

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And your point? The poster said he reduced THD, not THD+N.

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