The Right PCB House

Hi,

I've had good experiences with Advanced Circuits (http://www.

4pcb.com/). Make sure to use their free FDM service (http:// even if you don't end up going with them for manufacturing.

ExpressPCB is only good for quick-and-dirty stuff. Their advantage is that they're cheap and their design software is pretty simple to use, but the big disadvantage is that it locks you in to their software. Also I've never done 4-layer stuff with them; I believe they're also kind of limited in that department. They're great for quick-and-dirty stuff though.

Regards,

-- Hauke D

I have only ever used PCB express (NOT express PCB), and they have never steered me wrong. Nor have they caused problems that I know of for my one local client that uses them. They're fast, they're accurate, and if your board comes back with problems it's because you put them there.

I can't speak to any of the others -- they may be even better than PCB express (although there's not much room for improvement) or they may be horrid.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

So, there is PCBexpress, and expressPCB. Two different companies?

m/), even if you don't end up going with them for

y.

ro

ade the

like to receive the

I've used ExpressPCB for small projects before, but always 2-layer stuff. I've never had a problem with them, or their boards.

As for being "locked-in" to their software, for an extra $60 (last time I checked), they will send you the Gerber files. From there, you can import to many of the other programs avail.

Also, I recall hearing a while ago that a lot of these PCB prototype houses are all built at the same place anyway. So, while you might see 10 different company names (i.e., resellers), the boards themselves all come from the same place. Sorry, I don't remember the names of the companies involved, and don't know whether ExpressPCB is one of them.

-mpm

Can ExpressPCB receive files from other PCB software?

I've used ExpressPCB for small projects before, but always 2-layer stuff. I've never had a problem with them, or their boards.

As for being "locked-in" to their software, for an extra $60 (last time I checked), they will send you the Gerber files. From there, you can import to many of the other programs avail.

Also, I recall hearing a while ago that a lot of these PCB prototype houses are all built at the same place anyway. So, while you might see 10 different company names (i.e., resellers), the boards themselves all come from the same place. Sorry, I don't remember the names of the companies involved, and don't know whether ExpressPCB is one of them.

-mpm

Yes.

No. (only netlists from schematic tools)

Hm, didn't know that. Still, it should be noted that ExpressPCB can't read Gerber files and one can only order from ExpressPCB through their software, so I'd still consider that being pretty locked in. Plus, if I wanted to spend a little extra money, I'd just go with something like EagleCAD and one of the other fab places anyways :) I'd still recommend ExpressPCB for any simple 2-layer designs where it's not important for your design to be portable; I've used them several times myself and it's quick and easy and decent quality. And I'm a big fan of "keep it simple" interfaces like their software is.

Regards,

-- Hauke D

Talal Itani wrote: (Top posting fixed)

Yes, very different.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

even if you don't end up going with them for

the

So you have software that will go from a Gerber to a nicely laid out schematic?

That's impressive.

I use real tools to do my schematic capture and layout, and for no extra money I go to a regular PCB house to get boards.

(And PCB Express has it's own fab just 12 miles from me, so if I'm in a _real_ hurry I can pick it up and shave 8-12 hours off of the process).

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim,

I did not say that. You should re-read exactly what I posted. =2E..keeping in mind, that it is completely possible to design and order an ExpressPCB board without using their schematic capture software.

I am glad you use "real tools". (But that that has anything to do with the OP's question.)

Then if you need to make a little change it'll be another $60?

I have also used 4PCB, quite happy so far. They only messed up once (unapproved Gerber edits) but made good on that with an additional fast run, on the house. The nice thing is that I always have a real contact person there. She really helped us when they defaulted to this dreaded RoHS process which we absolutely did not want.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

I read exactly what you posted. You made a comment that certainly indicates that you feel that having a Gerber is somehow as good as having real design files, and that paying extra to get it after you've suffered through deficient design tools (and yes, I've used Express PCB tools) is somehow as good as using real tools to get a Gerber, and getting boards for $60 less.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

And you assumed we don't use Orcad here. (which we do). Some boards are so simple you don't really need schematic capture.

And No, I merely pointed out you could get the Gerber files for extra money. I did not opine on whether that was better. Only that technically, one was not "locked into" ExpressPCB's layout (not schematic capture) program.

The utility of this is quite obvious. One could, without investing in expensive professional layout software, design, build and test their widgets. Once perfected, (and assuming they have the need to), can spend the additional $60 or so to acquire the Gerber files which would then allow them to shop PCB fabrication offshore (or domestically at a non- prototype outfit), at substantial savings.

I agree ExpressPCB software is not the best, but you get what you pay for.

To the other poster: Yes. If you make any changes, it's another $60 (or whatever their current rate is). Also, you have to order the Gerbers at the same time you place your PCB order. (So you can't try the boards out first, and then order the Gerbers later. You would have to make a 2nd board order.)

I never said this situation was ideal. Only that if you had to have the Gerbers after the fact (to competitively shop, for instance), it can and has been done.

-mpm

One usually has to pay a premium for anything less than 10 days, and certainly for 3 days. Besids, transportation will take anywhere from 2 days to 5 days (total turn-around time). Are you Russian?

Absolutely!

even if you don't end up going with them for

the

ExpressPCB stuff comes from Mulino OR and at one time i knew the name of the "parent" company that will do much "fancier" boards.

They are not set up to do that. Send a query to their support smail address.

Well, there are Gerber editors...

Not much differnce between tin/lead solder on pads and silver plate

*IF* one is not going above (say) 150C. Tin/lead solder and tin/silver solders act esentially the same, so what is the beef?

No.