Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...

Whatshisname is a total crock of brown stuff. As if he hasn't got enough un finished and failing projects, the mental case is lining up work for diggin g his hyperloop tunnel from DC to NY or something ridiculous. Of course thi s will loot the national treasury of even more subsidy money.

That tunnel scheme is interesting...where's the escape hatch for when the passenger car gets jammed in place?

It would be nice if some crapheads could do a proper job of quotation/attribution. ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 

             I'm looking for work... see my website. 

Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.

I went out to the LA area a few months ago, and saw a LOT of Teslas, Volts and Leafs (Leaves?) Way more than in my area (St. Louis, MO) Now, just lately, I am starting to see a lot more Teslas here, too. Pretty much every day I see one, it used to be about once a month. So, somebody must be buying them.

Yes, some of Tesla's (Musk's) big plans to implement huge utility-scale energy storage seem like a big challenge - like maybe buying up the entire Lithium supply for several years.

Jon

Escape hatch? How about suicide hatch? The tunnels will be evacuated, so opening the hatch in the car will kill everybody. Or, a leak in the car will do the same.

Jon

Lots of EV in the SF area too. I guess they are the new status symbol.

Lithium for cars might make sense. For houses, stick with lead acid. You don't have to move the lead.

gh unfinished and failing projects, the mental case is lining up work for d igging his hyperloop tunnel from DC to NY or something ridiculous. Of cours e this will loot the national treasury of even more subsidy money.

You're talking about $1B/mile in that area.

Hey, the Big Dig was such a great idea! Just double down, a few times.

We have people die of smoke inhalation in the subway. I wonder which is better?

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Rick C

You may not be moving it, but you still have to house it. Lead acid is not only heavy, it's very space inefficient as well.

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Rick C

Many house insurance properties contain clauses that you don't store more than a nominal amount of petrol, say 5l / 1 real gallon. I wonder what they will say when they cotton on to the amount of energy stored in batteries, especially some types of lithium, batteries.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a tank of petrol is a lot more raw energy because of the huge inefficiency of auto engines. Even if that is not strictly correct, it's within an order of magnitude. I don't think insurance companies care if there isn't some significant difference in risk.

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Rick C

I was thinking of the petrol being stored in a can rather than a fuel tank, since that's what insurance companies are jittery about. Whether those are sensible jitters is a separate question.

34ML/l => ~9.4kWh. So 1 gallon has ~42kWh (or 34MJ if you live in the US and are therefore shortchanged :)

So, how much energy are you proposing be stored in batteries?

I wouldn't say "huge"; it is about 25% whereas a thermal power station is 29% at best.

The novel and unknown is a risk in itself.

Sigh. 34kWh.

any way to deny some future payouts is less cost for them.

NT

Don't know why you say this. If you have an attached garage it raises your home owner's insurance rates. So obviously they have concerns about the gas in the tank as well.

They typically hold in the range of 40 to 60 kWHr of electricity. The high end Teslas hold up to 100 kWHr. You know, the ones that will accelerate 0 to 60 MPH in 2.3 seconds.

Your numbers seem to be in disagreement with the rest of the experts. The info I find on the Internet seems to say The lowest type of generation is

25% efficient, gas turbines, but the other types of generation range from 33% to 45% efficient.

No, insurance companies are not in the business of risk in that *they* don't take risks. If something is too new to have info they can calculate rates from, they don't insure it.

Insurance companies are in the business of making money. Just like professional gamblers, they don't take risks, they make sure they know what is going on.

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Rick C

I've seen Ts&Cs stating no more than 5l/1gallon of petrol stored in a can.

I've never distinguished between different types of garage, since I've only been looking for insurance for one type of property.

Tesla and others are also proposing (no more at the moment) houses having lithium batteries for energy storage.

You may be right; I suspect the figure I dimly recollected was for coal fired plants.

Of course. If something is new and unknown, they charge more. Unless it is so new that it isn't even on their radar :)

But even then there may be a T&C relating to non-standard use or industrial of properties. Only trust an insurance company as far as you can throw it; they are expert at squirming and delaying payments - even for insured risks that clearly aren't your fault such as wide scale flooding.

On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 1:02:15 AM UTC-7, Tom Gardner wrote: ...

An additional issue with Li-Ion batteries is that in addition to the energy stored in the electrodes the electrolyte itself is highly flammable.

kevin

Hmm, I guess I can't park my cars in the garage anymore!

(Oh, I can't this week, anyway, we are setting up a garage sale out there.)

Jon