Self replicating and evolving RNA molecule created

Where did atomic structure come from?

Linus Pauling thought that it came from the electron orbitals around the atoms. Or that's what I got taught as an undergraduate in the 1960's.

On a sunny day (Sat, 19 Mar 2022 22:20:47 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Flyguy snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote in snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Good question I have some idea, that is all [1] I think all matter is conscious. That does not answer yur question But I also thing the smaller you look the more you will find and that our few neurons ? will not - or never find an end to that We are like an ant creeping up a wall that has no idea about the construction, the bricks, the reason it was build, what it was build for and the architect that came up with it. But it is fun to try to solve the puzzle. but if [1] is true then we (and the ant) already know all.

So much for just waking up :-)

Not exactly "simple chemical reactions."

Of course, the complex replication experiment was designed by the experimenters, and the replication rounds were forced by laboratory equipment intelligently programmed.

The big question around things like this is, what's the probability that a system like this - which is hardly cellular life yet - could happen accidentally in an inorganic world?

On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Mar 2022 08:19:46 -0700) it happened snipped-for-privacy@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Really? So you share the same belief system as - among many other societies - N. American native indian people?

On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Mar 2022 17:52:20 +0000) it happened Cursitor Doom snipped-for-privacy@notformail.com wrote in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I am not much of a believer, almost a 'show me' person, but from experience.

Everything in this universe or whatever you like to call it, is connected. Every electron that moves is experienced a bit later everywhere else. Also in the chemical reaction. if you like to call it that way, that we are.

It is all about awareness.

One could perhaps say that if we knew all factors all would unfold in a specific way where we are just part of the process and what we think and do about things was determined from the big bang or whatever there was before that, no free will. But then also all is known for those who understand that process..

Say you want A and A happens, was you wanting A a coincidence or some result from you wanting or just the bang unfolding that way, or did you want A because you knew the mechanism of the bang unfolding and knew A would happen etc etc

To answer your question from an other perspective - what is consciousness?- I have often stated that even a sunscreen that closes and open with a little motor and light sensor is 'conscious' of light add a beeper or voice and it will tell you when it is light and dark and what it is going to do. We are in that way not much more. Books have been written about it, what consciousness is,,, Keep it simple. An electron is conscious of other electrons as it reacts to their presence by moving. Its all simple Maybe it [each] has a story to tell

No, that doesn't answer my question at all. Where did electrons come from, then, where did neutrons come from, then, where did protons come from, then, where did strong nuclear force come from...?

The idea that the universe just randomly self-assembled MUST assume that SOMETHING existed at some point - where did that SOMETHING come from?

That's something I was recently thinking about. The orbitals are essentially always there. The difference in elements chemical behavior is how many orbitals have electrons in them which, in turn, is determined by the number of protons in the nucleus, the atomic number.

Most of my chemistry knowledge is long gone really. But I wonder if this realization is significant in chemistry. Are there times when there are electrons in orbitals that impact the chemical behavior, other than the number determined by the atomic number. I haven't given this much thought really. I need to mull on it a bit to see if I can recall anything relating to this from my chemistry background.

One concept that I've never fully considered is the idea of orbital hybridization. SP1, SP2, etc. What is the influence that causes such hybridization? Is it just the presence of another atom with appropriate empty orbitals?

All matter can be just as conscious as anything else.

This is not a new thought. It is a rather obvious thought at that.

Hmmm... the connection between wanting and knowing and happening is a bit tenuous.

Yes, because defining consciousness is not nearly as simple as you seem to believe.

That is a definition of consciousness that has little to offer. Considering such consciousness results in pretty much nothing of value. Ok, so everything has consciousness. So what? Now we need to come up with another term that describes the mind that is not only aware of the other, but the self. And now we are back where we started.

I would also point out that you are talking about electrons having consciousness, while electrons don't actually exist other than in our minds as a useful construct to explain the nature of the universe.

Some serious biologists have done the math and got essentially zero.

Your concept of the requirement for there to have been no beginning, no point of creation of the universe, is not self apparent. Everything in our existence has been a matter of B being caused by A. But there was universe before our existence, going back long enough that there is no reason to think a beginning of the universe is not possible.

Considering what existed before existence, is a category error. The question does not apply any more than asking, what direction is purple? How good does fresh baked bread smell if you have no olfactory organ? In an jet airplane, how many miles do you get to a thought? How tall were you before your grandparents were born?

I guess some people are better at math than others. I hope they showed their work.

Of course it doesn't. You are much too dim to ask a useful question.

That's what the Big Bang Theory addresses, at least to some extent. It puts the universe through a process that completely randomises anything that might have been there before, so there's no point in asking anything about it. You may see it as a cop-out, but science is about asking questions that might get answered. Gibbering idiots like you don't ask that kind of question.

Quite a while ago, and for a rather different system. John Larkin doesn't really understand the question, and he's even weaker at understanding what might constitute an answer.

On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Mar 2022 12:56:34 -0700) it happened snipped-for-privacy@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Proof of 100% is that you are here.

Somehow. But RNA World requires at least as much faith as "God did it."

On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Mar 2022 07:22:21 -0700) it happened snipped-for-privacy@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I dunno, I did read that paper and it says on page 1: <quote>

Here, we continued the serial transfer experiment up to 240 rounds (1200 h). Sequence analysis uncovered that two previously detected host RNA lineages became sustained and further diverged into multiple sublineages of host and parasitic RNAs. The population dynamics of each lineage gradually changed during the evolution, from dynamically fluctuating stages to quasi-stable coexistence, suggesting the appearance of co- replicative relationships among the lineages. Biochemical ana- lyses supported the co-replication of dominant RNAs in the different lineages containing a cooperative RNA that replicates all other members, thus establishing a multiple replicator network. <end quote>

There are several ways cultures refer to 'God' Some (India, gurus) say it is the power inside you that you can experience. Is actually a state of mind caused by love your mama love you pa based 50% hit, do meditation to feel the difference. The Christian churches often refer to some external creator. One common thing I see is that all put one guy (human) in command who then asks for your money, describes rules you need to follow to 'see' or experience God, and basically are a dictatorship interwoven with normal politics (everyone not obeying is bad or devil or whatever). Business models!

There was a reason Jesus tore those stands down at the temple. The Roman empire made Christianity its religion, commercialization and silly ideas followed those who disagreed where burned or treated as witches.

Promising liberation after death to the poor if they dance to your tune is as old as the world as is medicine men doing the rain dance... Personally I use rain-radar (online here) if I want to go biking ..