Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations

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A newly published study suggests the Milky Way galaxy could contain alien civilisations, though there's a strong possibility most of them are already dead.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/300192020/study-finds-our-galaxy-may-be-full-of-dead-alien-civilisations

https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.07902

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Dec 2020 04:39:45 -0800 (PST)) it happened Fred Bloggs

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The thought that re-occurs to me is that perhaps the much written and talked about 'microwave background'  
is simply the sum of all the alien civilization TV and radio transmissions..
Our modern transmission systems emit a spectrum that is very much like white noise.
Randomizer is for example part of DVB-S (our satellite TV system).
When I reluctantly boarded the vlaaing cup and saucer <ccrrfrferfrrfer  

transmission broken
1wefogi1123123> aliens do not exist << we come in piece .....  
 have control over your precedent...>> beep  
revolution!

Our ability to make and use tools is nothing special, crows do it too, we just happened to stumble
upon electrickety after a long long time....  
Some animals use it directly: electric eels do that...
  
Anyways in listening for alien radio an TV we should focus on 'decoding' the 'randomness' in what we receive.
The 'them using Morse' time window  is likely prohibitive small to find any that do.

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On 24/12/2020 13:12, Jan Panteltje wrote:
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That would be highly unlikely since it looks exactly like a thermally  
emitting black body redshifted by a huge amount.

The main thing about artificial signals (that want to be seen) is that  
they typically have a very narrow band carrier wave modulated somehow.

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Our modern digital TV is now sufficiently broadband to be much harder to  
spot from a distance. The chosen few stars accidentally illuminated by  
Arecibo doing high power radar ranging and imaging of asteroids would  
see us as a very bright non-thermal radio source for a few seconds.

It is just about conceivable that some of the fast radio bursts we  
observe today might be eavesdropping on a directed beam communications  
channel rather than an astrophysical phenomena. There is one pretty  
interesting candidate right now from proxima centuri. Near enough to  
have a stilted conversation with them if it proves to be real.

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Looking for anything that is non-thermal polarised radiation with a very  
strong carrier wave at a non-astrophysical wavelength would be the most  
likely way that we will find something. Most such nuisance detections  
prove to be false alarms caused by local interference. The odd one  
remains unexplained or found to be an interesting astronomical object.

The pulsar surveys continue to push the boundaries in terms of time  
resolution and signal to noise. Sadly one of their big dishes is no more.

--  
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On Thursday, December 24, 2020 at 8:33:17 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:
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We tax the crap out of various "sin" categories.  Maybe we should do something to earmark some of the tax money to pay for science.  Cosmetics is a multi-billion dollar market.  A 1% tax could pay for a lot of Arecibos.  

--  

Rick C.

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Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On 12/24/2020 12:30 PM, Rick C wrote:
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Why just cosmetics? Cigarettes are taxed heavily to discourage smoking  
and to help pay for those smokers who are hospitalized and can't pay.  
What about horse racing, bingo, gambling? I can see a lot of avenues  
where funding could be available.


Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On Thursday, December 24, 2020 at 4:20:34 PM UTC-5, John S wrote:
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Lol!  Cigarettes were taxed long before we even conceived of the societal costs involved.  I'm fine with taxing anything you want as long as I don't have to pay it.  lol  

--  

Rick C.

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Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On a sunny day (Thu, 24 Dec 2020 13:33:03 +0000) it happened Martin Brown

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IMO that is a mistake
These transmissions, from say an advanced civilization, will be pseudo random over a wide bandwidth
and close to the Shannon limit, see DVB-S2 for example.
To decode those you need to provide the correct random sequence
even for GPS.
 http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/navsats/theory.html
scroll down for the shift register CA code generator.
It is a nice site! I leaned a lot from that.

For code generation for DVB-S see my C source code:
   http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/ts2iq_pi-10%5E-97.81.c
based on ets_300421e01p.pdf DVB-S standard from etsi.org, then see  
 4.4.1 Transport multiplex adaptation and randomization for energy dispersal...



One could record part of the spectrum and try continuous replay to see if there are any hits for sequences we know.
The bandwidth could be huge,  
Else it would just look like wide-band noise.

It is so also a math challenge if you like that!


  

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Ultimately we look for wiggling electrons.
If you follow the viewpoint that any moving electron in the universe effects any (every) other electron
and resonance is the key, bandwidth works against you.
I am no kwantuum ? expert, but maybe there are things to be gained from coupling
between very far away electron states.


We have just started, after all what is say 200 years of radio on ?how long have we been around?
Maybe the big dishes are not needed.

Sure there is also RF noise from alien planets, recently one was discovered to emit radio bursts, but that
is likely from atmospheric effects..


Hey happy Christmas everybody!
  

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On 25/12/2020 06:17, Jan Panteltje wrote:
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Though advanced civilisations will invariably move towards efficient  
high entropy noise like encoding radio systems (or still worse optical  
fibre). They will still have some characteristic modulation frequency  
even if they used some self clocking version of Manchester encoding.

Chances are we will only be realistically able to detect them at stellar  
distances for the brief period where they have mastered high power RF  
electronics and before they have spread spectrum digital technology or  
suppressed carrier wave. Maybe only a 50 year RF window of opportunity.

Or when their version of Arecibo happens to have us in the beam when  
they are radar imaging asteroids.

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The pulsar detection specialists have this stuff under constant  
surveillance if anyone sees an LGM signal it will likely be them. They  
take in a fair chunk of sky and look for anything repetitive (most times  
it is a pulsar). They have quite large catalogues of known objects now.

The first one was interestingly discovered around Christmas in 1967:

https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/journeysofdiscovery-pulsars

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Merry Christmas to you too.

--  
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On Thursday, December 24, 2020 at 8:14:57 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
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I've recently read  
"Introduction to cosmology", by Barbara Ryden
Upper undergrad physics level.  A nice book.  
One of the best pieces of   evidence for the big bang is the cosmic abundance of deuterium.  
All the deuterium we see was made in the first few minutes of the big bang... (It is created inside stars,
but it is quickly converted to He4.)  So what we see (on earth or in space) was made during the  
big bang.  That's pretty cool.  I want to buy some heavy water!  

George H.  
(oh it's hard for noise to reproduce the angular power spectrum of the CMB.)    

  

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On a sunny day (Sat, 26 Dec 2020 10:40:26 -0800 (PST)) it happened George

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If there was a 'big' bang, if it was some explosion, likely there were many.
There are nice lectures on youtube by Sir Roger Penrose for example, he did show
evidence for that.
As I pointed out I am a fan of Le Sage gravity theory, maybe particles originating from multiple bangs...
If we forget about 'singularity' dilemma for a moment, something very dense and powerful could
be happening that we obviously still need to discover, like we discovered fusion powering the sun etc...
  
As to detection of RF (electron resonance) maybe gases with atoms each with close spectra to form a
super detector.....  when you look a the latest atomic clocks...  
 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201216113301.htm
in a way everything is connected, we have that capability in our brain too (from my experience)
past present and future are accessible but now we go 'of the scale' for some I am sure.
And yet..  
  

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It is not evenly distributed. radio capable civilizations would not be either...


Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 04:39:45 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs

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That site publishes some great science research:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/



--  

John Larkin      Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.


  

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations

On 2020/12/24 8:11 a.m., snipped-for-privacy@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
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This study wasn't peer reviewed, but I liked how they squeezed in  
Climate Change as one of the potential dooms for our planet.

Its been much hotter with much higher CO2 in the atmosphere and somehow  
life went on, so while climate change is, of course, perfectly real -  
life on this planet is used to it and will adapt as it always has.

As for quicker changes, how about those Mayans? What did they do to  
change the rain patterns? Forget to make the correct sacrifices?

John ;-#)#

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
wrote:

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That's politically correct. Did they include coronavirus? White
supremacy?

An "expanded version of the famous Drake Equation" just piles nonsense
on nonsense.

Drake is the product of seven factors, most of which are wild
conjecture, each not known to 50:1. An expanded version must be worse.


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They didn't go extinct. There are lots of Mayan descendents around
now.




Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations

On 2020/12/24 10:05 a.m., John Larkin wrote:
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Yes, I know, but their economy collapsed primarily due to their climate  
changing - and I'm sure other factors played a part. Probably had too  
many lawyers per 100,000 capita or some such factor...(Lets pick on the  
lawyers, eh? They aren't engineers! Or sort-of engineers like me.)

John :-#)#

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On 12/24/2020 1:31 PM, John Robertson wrote:
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You are! You a communist! You're going to let a thousand trillion  
dollars of beachfront property get destroyed to start some  
back-to-nature communist society with no lawyers.

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On 12/24/2020 1:05 PM, John Larkin wrote:
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There are lots of things which may, or may not, exist.

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Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations

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That's very helpful. But what about the rest?

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On Thursday, December 24, 2020 at 12:45:11 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:
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It wasn't the same life as we know it. Lots of stuff went extinct. So, sure, life will go on, but it won't be recognizable to any of us.  

  
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Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On 12/24/2020 12:44 PM, John Robertson wrote:
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And do you know what it would cost to push all those buildings and  
highways etc. in all those cities back to accommodate a 1 meter sea  
level rise even if that were the only effect? Is any of this free? Are  
you some kind of communist?

Re: Study finds our galaxy may be full of dead alien civilisations
On 2020-12-24 20:48, John Larkin wrote:
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Except that it doesn't work like that. The usual way it works is
that people wait for a catastrophe and then engage in grandiose
projects.

Jeroen Belleman

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