Rolle Rant

Nov 20, 2010 79 Replies

Rolle's Theorem.

formatting link



Something I first came across at university 40 years ago. It really pissed me off, and still does. Isn't it so totally, utterly obvious that it does not need proving? A bit like claiming that given two numbers, x and x where x


No.

That doesn't prove that there will be a point with slope == 0.

Good Luck! Rich

It still seems totally obvious. And for Rolle's next trick - proving 1+1=2

Dirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

Agreed. It either starts off directly towards the other point - in which case slope is 0. Or else it starts out at some angle from the straight line between the two points. In which case it has to turn around at some point, which means the slope must go through through 0 (if it is differentiable, as stated).

John Devereux

Only pot smokers rant over such things :-) ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | If Nancy Pelosi gave Obama one of her balls, they'd both have two.

I take it you didn't study maths?

Nothing, and I mean *nothing*, is considered so obvious that it doesn't need proving.

"From this proposition it will follow, when arithmetical addition has been defined, that 1+1=2." ? Volume I, 1st edition, page 379 (page 362 in 2nd edition; page 360 in abridged version).

The first rule of mathematics is "assume nothing".

The motto of engineers everywhere is "without assumptions, no progress will be made". This has brought us airplanes (and Langly's Aerodrome), steamships (and the Titanic), the Golden Gate Bridge (and the Tacoma Narrows Bridge), the PC (and the PC), etc.

Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

It was a big impediment to my starting maths at uni. I could not understand why such a thing needed proving.

Dirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

Well, Rolle's Th is. And it is provably so :-)

I am familiar with that, but maths courses at uni do not *start* with such things.

Dirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

I did not say I "assumed" it, but that it was totally obvious.

Dirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

Ah, but then you must *prove* that it is _totally_ obvious, as opposed to say, somewhat obvious, or even mostly obvious...

The proof is too trivial to bother with IMHO

Dirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

I guess that's the difference between mathematics and engineering. In engineering we have "rules of thumb" and various accepted approximations, perhaps based soley on experience or tradition. In mathematics we strive to have every step and possible loophole explicitly proven and filled in all the way back to the founding axioms, otherwise it's just a guess.

Intuitively obvious to the most casual observer ?:-) ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | If Nancy Pelosi gave Obama one of her balls, they'd both have two.

Godel showed that it's just a guess, except in a rather restricted set of mathematics eg Peano arithmetic

Dirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

We could also impose Sharia, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Where have _you_ worked? Everywhere that I've ever worked, "That's totally obvious" is the boss's synonym for "I'm making an assumption, and if you question it you're fired".

Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Would you like some cheese to go with that whine?

Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Coin toss.

100 times and there is nothing from keeping all 100 from being either heads or tails as each toss has no bearing on subsequent tosses, nor is it affected by any count of previous toss outcomes in the set.

Then, there is chaos, of course.

But strangely, after viewing the proof - it's totally obvious.

Dirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

Join the Discussion

Have something to add? Share your thoughts — no account required.

Didn't find your answer?

Ask the community — no account required