Re: OT: Post Turtle

I reckon it is raw anti-intellectualism. Regular Joe Six pack appeal.

I should add here that I am no great Gore fan. I think he is a hypocrite with a don't do as I do do as I say message. I suppose he means well.

Viewed from the outside the US political scene looks excessively bipolar and partisan to the extent that the two main political parties each demonise the other. And there are not enough swing states.

There is little point in having two party names you may as well call them X and !X. Though perhaps that name is a bit too short.

How about Republicans and Snacilbupers, or Starcomeds and Democrats.

Unless your politicians return to the middle ground there may even be a risk of civil war. Respect for political opponents is a fundamental part of any democratic society. The alternative can lead to totalitarianism.

Perhaps it is about to improve from this all time low. McCain and Obama both look like they might be capable of having some cross party appeal.

Regards, Martin Brown

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Reply to
Martin Brown
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It's sport. And money. But unlike some parts of the world, people in the USA don't kill one another over sport.

This is hardly the stuff of civil war.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

No, they kill each other over not being able to afford a pair of Nikes.

Politics is too serious to be considered a sport, IMO -- the freedoms of a people isn't just a big game.

Reply to
Joel Koltner

I agree, that today's US citizens are very unlikely to go to civil war. Not, perhaps, for all the same reasons you see. But I agree with your conclusion. My reasoning includes weaknesses of human nature and our political and military system, so it's not all Pollyanna about who we are in the US that I agree with you.

Still, I have to say that this administration has done little but work harder than most I can remember to enhance an already rapidly growing polarization in the US. If anyone could get us to actually gnash at each others throats, I would suppose them capable of it.

A friend I've known for a lot of years, someone I share time with perhaps several times a month, was speaking to me as though he was ready to go get his guns and enter a personal shooting war with other citizens in the US. I've known him many years and I can assure you that in my judgment he was getting close to speaking literally, not figuratively, on this.

I think he just feels a continual stress now and wanted to feel some kind of catharsis. For the very first time in my life, though, I felt personally scared hearing someone speak like this. This man is a very law-abiding and by-the-book kind of person, a doctor's son and generally well-educated, and probably someone I'd look towards as a stable foundation to cling towards when the seas got rougher. I've always thought of him as less willing than I am to consider such ideas, anyway. And here he was 'talking crazy' to me.

Unprecedented, for me. This was perhaps a little more than a year and a half ago and I was completely and utterly shocked. A side of him I hadn't ever seen was showing. And his tone and anger was palpable.

I've been around long enough to see the world's population triple and in that 'short' time I've never once encountered this kind of rancor from one stalwart citizen in the US against others (not me, luckily.) Yet in the last two years, I've personally heard this kind of talk on four separate occasions from different individuals. And I've heard _of_ it from others, about who I can't well judge much, far more often than before.

So although I conclude the same way, I still find it surprising some kind of broader sea change; how much condensation into isolated and entrenched positions have taken place here in the US, with a lessening of hope and willingness to find workable compromises that may keep us together and working shoulder to shoulder for our common goals well into the future.

We need leaders who will work diligently to mend these divisions and help us rebuild trust enough to provide workable bridges and honest compromises that will develop and improve relationships over time; instead of encouraging disingenuous strategizing about how to demolish the opposition and 'win the game.' We all lose if 'winner take all' is the guiding rule. We must all be willing to give up some of what we dearly cherish, I suspect; an uneasy truce to maintain for a while, long enough to recover some of the lost trust and begin to rediscover our common causes, again.

Jon

Reply to
Jonathan Kirwan

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