Re: Hidden Tesla Technological System

The reason why aeronautics uses 400Hz, and the usual PC switching power supply, with a ferrite core transformer, run about 20kHz.

I was wondering some time ago about the optimal power line frequency for ferrite core transformers. (And I have no idea on the relative cost.)

-- glen

A couple of problems:

1)Ferrite is nice at higher frequencies but at lower frequencies, transformer steel still has an edge with regard to relative permeability and allowable flux density. 2) so why not go to higher frequencies for transmission-? There the problem is the capacitance and inductance of the transmission line. The advantages/disadvantages of ferrites vs ordinary transformers are negligable with respect to the problems at higher frequencies. As opposed to communication systems. In fact the trend is towards high voltage DC for long lines. 400Hz in an aircraft makes sense as the generators are driven by high speed turbines, and there are weight/size advantages (not as important for stationary ground based units) and distances are small compared to those of ground based systems.

Different strokes for different people.

Don Kelly cross out to reply

(snip, I wrote)

It seems that the main Shasta units, according to the web site, run at 138.5RPM. That is close to, but not exactly, 3600/26.

In addition, there are service units, which I believe supply the power to run the plant. There are two 2MW generators, according to the web, at 600RPM. (They are much smaller.) So either I remembered it wrong or the tour guide was wrong, but only off by a factor of two.

Yes. I was thinking, if one pole was different: weaker, stronger, or off in some other direction, it would cause a noticable effect at the rotation frequency, such as 1.2Hz, or harmonics of 1.2Hz (for 72RPM rotation).

I realize, thought, that is more obvious in the case of a two pole rotor and 100 pole stator, or the other way around, which isn't likely. Even so, it would seem that small difference in the poles could be measured if averages over enough cycles.

-- glen

That's not always true. Good steel (like high grade, stripwound GOSS) will have permeabilities at or above ferrite levels (mu_r = 10-30k), but cheap stamped stock typically lands in the ~1k range. Ferrites do about the same.

On the other hand, flux density is through the roof. Ferrites top out at

0.4T. Steel runs triple that!

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Personally I suspect he was speaking truth as he understood it. I also suspect he either had one or more misapprehensions about em- related physics, or just didn't parse it in the "standard" way.

A lot of his "crazy" ideas did indeed work, and still do.

I have also read rumors of this. Unfortunately...

...Bearden and his ilk are also the source of most of said rumors.

Tesla believed in a specific sort of scalar wave, a longitudinal em wave denied by Maxwell et. al. It'd be a monopolar, not dipole wave, but monopole waves can't exist if electric flux must end on opposite charges.

It's hard to see that as a matter of parsing, since if his waves exist then Maxwell needs amending; flux lines can "ground" themselves on the vacuum.

If Tesla had known about "red sprites" and "blue jets" associated with thunderstorm he probably would have tried to tap them.

eslarec.pdf

Yet they can be redrawn to conform to standard conventions. Such things as distributed capacitance are not mere mathematical conveniences.

I see them as evidence Tesla did indeed parse reality to a different standard. Whether Reality also believes in his longitudinal waves remains to be seen, since AFAIK nobody's been able to show anything attributable to Tesla that might be an antenna for them that didn't "really" operate in an opposing-pole fashion.

Mark L. Fergerson

wave denied by Maxwell et. al. It'd be a monopolar, not dipole wave, but monopole waves can't exist if electric flux must end on opposite charges.

Sir Oliver Lodge discovered the longitudinal waves in the wires. Tesla send it in the vacuum (rare plasma). "In April 1887, Tesla began investigating what would later be called X-rays using his own single terminal vacuum tubes (similar to his patent #514,170). This device differed from other early X-ray tubes in that it had no target electrode. The modern term for the phenomenon produced by this device is bremsstrahlung (or braking radiation). We now know that this device operated by emitting electrons from the single electrode through a combination of field electron emission and thermionic emission. Once liberated, electrons are strongly repelled by the high electric field near the electrode during negative voltage peaks from the oscillating HV output of the Tesla Coil, generating X rays as they collide with the glass envelope."

Electrons jump off from the end of antenna and cause the longitudinal (monopolar) waves in the rare plasma.

There is a full analogy to the acoustic waves.

with thunderstorm he probably would have tried to tap them.

All clouds expel electrons in the all directions.

things as distributed capacitance are not mere mathematical conveniences.

standard. Whether Reality also believes in his longitudinal waves remains to be seen, since AFAIK nobody's been able to show anything attributable to Tesla that might be an antenna for them that didn't "really" operate in an opposing-pole fashion.

Electric waves from a monopole are longitudinal. The ones emitted from dipole are coupled. Like the acoustic from the two sources. S*

Mark L. Fergerson

Radiation to space and ground heating increase with frequency, so staying at a low frequency is good for long transmission lines. Also, the thin laminations needed for large power transformers probably make you want to stay with fewer, thicker laminations to keep a lid on the cost of them. I can't imagine how many thousands of layers you'd need for a megawatt-level transformer at hundreds of Hz.

Aircraft use 400 Hz and it drastically reduces the size of transformers and motors. IBM used 115 V 5 KHz power in the IBM 360 family as the transformers were TINY on a 100+ Amp power supply. Wish I could find some of those transformers now, I'd love to have the cores.

Jon

In sci.physics.electromag Jon Elson wrote: (snip)

I know at least the big S/360's were powered by motor-generators. I always thought that was for transient surpression, but that would also allow for frequency conversion.

The higher frequency also allows for smaller filter capacitors in the power supply.

-- glen

...and an orderly shut-down on power fault. MG sets were around a lot longer than 360s, too.

Certainly. Later models (3080s) used phase-controlled regulators, which use SCRs as the pass elements from the three (400Hz) phases. Filter capacitor size was quite important. ;-)

A conventional X-ray tube with a target also works via bremsstrahlung, created when the fast-moving electrons collide with the metal target.

Actually, I don't think the phenomenon behind bremsstrahlung is limited to X-rays or deceleration of electrons. It should be created whenever a charge is accelerated in any way. I suspect it is the same ultimate mechanism behind synchrotron radiation, which arises from change-of-direction acceleration instead of change-of-speed. Perhaps some physicist in the group could enlighten us?

Best regards,

Bob Masta DAQARTA v5.10 Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis

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"Bob Masta" wrote news: snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org...

Tesla Coil produced the radio waves. The electrons emitted from the end of the antenna produced X-rays when collide with a solid. In the collision place they collide with the atoms and electrons. They oscillate. The oscillating charged body radiate.

Each moving body disturbes the medium. But waves are produced only by oscillations.

All natural waves are produced by oscillations. The first electric waves were produced by oscillations in the dipole (Hertz dipole).

Now we can shield the one end of the dipole and radiate from monopole. Such waves are longitudinal. That from the two ends of the dipole are also longitudinal. But they are coupled in the one plane. So we can say that they are polarized.

Maxwell proposed the transversal waves to explain the light polarization. Waves from a dipole are also polarized but in different sense.

Stokes, Helmholtz, Kelvin and Tesla were the best. S*

In sci.physics.electromag Bob Masta wrote: (snip)

If you argue it that way, then protons should emit synchrotron radiation at the same rate as electrons. From the wikipedia page Synchrotron_radiation, you find that there as a (special) relativistic term that is also needed. (But there are way too many complicated equations on that page.)

-- glen

Best regards,

Bob Masta DAQARTA v5.10 Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis

Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI DaqMusic - FREE MUSIC, Forever! (Some assembly required) Science (and fun!) with your sound card!

(snip)

Fertilizer. So-called monopole antennas have a *ground plane* (not a "shield") placed where the midpoint of a dipole would be; E-field lines from the antenna extend to the ground plane (until they go far- field, of course). The antenna behaves like a dipole (radiating perfectly ordinary transverse EM waves) with one element being a sort of virtual reflection in the ground plane of the real element:

Mark L. Fergerson

The are heavier and so the same field will not accelerate/decelerate them at the same rate. However, at the same speed (but not the same energy) and radius of curvature of the synchrotron they should radiate identically.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

(snip)

Ordinary transverse EM waves are a myth - said Tesla.

" If multiple monopole antennas are used in order to control the direction of Radio Frequency (RF) propagation, they are called directional antenna arrays."

The dipoles are the "multiple monopole antennas" and are always used to "control the direction of Radio Frequency (RF) propagation"

The ground plane (120 radials) is a chassis. The top of antenna expels of electrons and the chassis is a reservoir of them. The monopole does not behave like a dipole.

The Royal Society rejected the Maxwell's hipothesis. Heaviside renewed it. Who was better - Heaviside or Tesla? S*

"Bob Masta" wrote news: snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org...

"stopping in matter" is not precise. Electrons must oscillate before stopping. The oscillations are the only source of radiation. S*

Acceleration, including decelleration, including change of direction without change of magnitude of velocity, is sufficient for charged particles to produce "bremsstrahlung radiation".

Particles being decellerated sometimes do not oascillate - consider "critical damping"and "overdamping". However, forcing a change of vector velocity of a charged particle is often sufficient to achieve energy conversion from kinetic energy to electromagnetic radiation.

No "oscillation" is necessary here.

--
 - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

From the Hertz dipole to Free electron laser electrons oscillate. So we can assume that the radiation is result of the oscillations.

Radiation in form of coherent waves must be caused by oscillations.

May be that to do soliton.

Oscillations in the Hertz dipole are the simplest to analyse.

In Heaviside theory the oscillating current create the oscillating magnetic whirl. Such oscillations are transversal.

In Tesla's the voltage which is doubled at the ends of the dipole create the alternate electric fields. Such alternations are longitudinal. The directional patern of the dipole is the result of interference of waves from the two ends.

Who do you prefer? Heaviside or Tesla? S*

Agreed, and I suspect (but don't have the math skills to back it up) that it is the *acceleration* aspect of the oscillation in "normal" (say, transmitter antenna) RF that is responsible for the EM waves.

Since we know that acceleration of charge causes EM waves, and we know that a sinusoidal antenna current has a (co)sinusoidal acceleration of the bazillions of electrons in the antrenna, then we assume that this constant-frequency acceleration must result in EM waves. It seems unlikely that this is a separate mechanism from "normal" antenna operation (or we would have to account for it separately, which I've never heard of), so my guess is that it is the one and only mechanism.

But even if I had the math to show they are equivalent, I'm not sure what good it would be... just an interesting way of looking at things!

Best regards,

Bob Masta DAQARTA v5.10 Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis

Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI DaqMusic - FREE MUSIC, Forever! (Some assembly required) Science (and fun!) with your sound card!