I think I found a video that'll explain this better than I did. :)
Electroboom cracks me the f*ck up.. seriously.
Soapy water is not your friend if your plugged in device comes into the water with you... oops.
ROFL. Review the video I shared above. Don't be an idiot around electricity.
Smart choice.
-- A study in Scotland showed that the kind of male face a woman finds attractive can differ depending where a woman is in her menstrual cycle. For instance, if she is ovulating they are attracted to men with rugged, masculine features. If she is menstruating she is more prone to be attracted to a man with scissors shoved in his temple.
Wrong video... Oops...
Here's one of two I intended to provide you:
and here's the other one...
-- Look! He's protecting himself with a zesty tartar sauce.
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news:25e7ff13-c8cd-4bef-bdd5-22bab2028b77 @googlegroups.com:
Caps do not use bread bags. This was about insulating against line voltage, not capacitor manufacturing films.
And they did not fail from a micro-hole, or it would have failed at the factory over-voltage test. They fail from a full conduction path breach or conductor node detachment.
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
No. We were talking about PVC pipe, and I said that even a bread bag could stop line voltage. THEN we started talking about films.
Diesel wrote in news:XnsAB0332EFD530AHT1 @pUs761lJv8WI1UslzRT3g76.yip0v5y3R0tD9r426HdenG1:
Here is where your stupidity comes in. Once an arc is established the nodes can be drawn apart and the arc will continue.
ANY idiot trainee like you would know that from simply watching the now years old video of a set of breakers opening at a substation.
To put it simply, child. It requires VOLTAGE to breach a gap.
It require continual current delivery capacity to fry things once that gap is breached.
So a 10kV ignition transformer for a kerosene heater bridges a specific gap. ONCE an arc is established, it drops to about one kV, but maintains the arc, yet ONLY provides a couple mA at that level, which means that LOAD matters. It is NOT 10kV from the moment that arc is established forward, as it CANNOT drive that virtual zero ohm load. It gets clamped down by the load.
NOW, you precious pole pig, on the other hand, can drive several hundred amps into a short load. That is a MAJOR difference. The HV line feeding it comes from a transformer capable of providing hundreds of amps AT the voltage it delivers. THat is VASTLY different than a piddly kerosene ignition transformer. And you appear unable to see that difference.
So your victim does not get fried by voltage. He gets fried by the current, because POWER distribution systems are MADE to DELIVER POWER. The voltage merely provides the initialization, as the idiot got in between two nodes and made a current path.
So where you failed is your bent brained thingking that everything has massive amperage capacity. YOU think "it takes current". You are not fully educated and lack some physics knowledge. To bridge a node gap, it takes POTENTIAL or no breach occurs. Once said POTENTIAL cause a breach, THEN the current delivery capacity of said nodes comes in to play.
That is why lightning only lasts for a very short period. Very high voltage, and very low storage (relatively)means a lot happens, but for only a very short period.
Otherwise we could capture and store and make use of lightning energy.
Real power delivery requires the ability to feed that load constantly.
You missed something in your training or it is an incomplete course.
Diesel wrote in news:XnsAB0332EFD530AHT1 @pUs761lJv8WI1UslzRT3g76.yip0v5y3R0tD9r426HdenG1:
You are a goddamned idiot, boy.
I have seen line shorts fry a person's arm completey off. And she was 25 feet from the arc event location.
I do not "think I know more than I do". I KNOW that I know more than you do, however.
You are a fresh trained wire boy punk, or someone trained longer ago, but whom never ever really got the physics right in your lacking screw driver turning head.
Otherwise, you would have never made the layman phrased statement you made about it requiring current as well as voltage to breach a gap.
Diesel wrote in news:XnsAB0332F14729EHT1 @pUs761lJv8WI1UslzRT3g76.yip0v5y3R0tD9r426HdenG1:
Oh look. You finally got one right.
criude... yes.
half wave... yes.
Therefore NOT a "voltage doubler" as you have been claiming. It is a "half wave voltage doubler" at best.
Diesel wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@pUs761lJv8WI1UslzRT3g76.yipv5y3R0tD9r426Hde nG1:
Your videos show nothing about "it's not just the voltage".
Again, your original assertion is incorrect. Period. The ONLY thing that matters in breaching a gap is VOLTAGE.
The ONLY thing that matters when your body is passing current is that current LEVEL. That is AFTER the arc is established.
Obviously not.
When you say "it's not just the voltage it's the amperage", you cause your previous stated assertion about yourself to fall flat on its face.
And just so you know, and yes it has already been also argued here, "amperage" is not a word.
Maybe now you will get it.
Diesel wrote in news:XnsAB033B085533FHT1 @pUs761lJv8WI1UslzRT3g76.yip0v5y3R0tD9r426HdenG1:
Your brain is flawed. Sorry, chump... but it is.
Particularly because of your retarded sig generator. It is a real tell about your inane brain.
More You tube BS.
Have you actually tried the circuit ? I just did to see. I only used a
6 volt transformer. A 1 UF capacitor and a diode rated for 3 amps. With a 40,000 ohm load. The meter is a Fluke, not the HF quality.Adjusting for a 6.0 voltage AC the DC voltage did not make 8 volts. That is in line with the 1.4 times the AC voltage and diode drop. Just like a 1/2 wave rectifier .
If it was really a voltage doubler, it should have been over 10 volts DC allowing for the drop of the diode.
It still takes 2 diodes and 2 capacitors to do the voltage doubling for a 1/2 wave doubler.
You should really verify anything you see on youtube before stating it as fact.
I will concede that you do get a doubling of pulse voltages in this particular case.
Just not a DC voltage one normally thinks of when mentioning a voltage circuit. Found this out by putting a scope across the circuit after someone else mentioned how the pulses were offset in the negative direction.
Ralph Mowery wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.east.earthlink.net:
It is all the microwave magnetron cavity needs to resonate.
Probably pretty lossy with what gets used from the outlet over what gets pumped out of the magnetron cavity into the load (food).
Nope...
Message-ID:
One diode and one cap does not make a voltage doubler. The diode is a rectifier so that the magnetron gets a DC feed.
*** end pasteMessage-ID:
I was wiring circuits back in the early seventies, *and* I know what the term 'continuity' means.
*** end pasteToo funny. First circuit diagram and description is the same one found in most MOT driven end user microwave ovens. Just like I said.
A voltage DOUBLER circuit, not a half wave rectifier as you and another poster incorrectly assumed it to be.
I rather like it myself.
My brain? Oh, you think I wrote each and every single sig it generates eh? Just how much trouble does your tendency to quickly ASSUme things (often in error) get you in on a daily basis?
The sigfile is a collection of other sig files, merged into a larger file that I've collected along the way, some going back to the fidonet days. So not sorry if you find it bothersome. If anything, it brings a smile to my face to know you don't like it. [g]
Oh, and incidently, I wouldn't let you wire a light fixture to a dog house; I'd be worried you'd f*ck it up.
-- --Ceud Mille Failte--Gaelic: A hundred thousand welcomes.
Not only do you try desperately to be insulting, you also like to dance around the topic when called out.
Evidently, based on the fact you started by claiming 77kv was necessary to jump an inch of open air, and dismissed it entirely as voltage related; nothing to do with amperage, frequency, ac/dc, etc.
ALL Of that is factored into the arc. It determines whether the arc is going to be a hot or a cold one, it determines how far that arc can travel and how much punch it's got upon initialization and during the sustainment phase; if it can be sustained.
Your insults aside, I told you, more than just voltage is involved, your maths is wrong. Has always been wrong. It does not take 77kv to jump an inch of open air. You were writing horse shit. And I repeatedly told you this.
With all due respect, I think you've ASSumed incorrectly enough in this thread. You claimed 77kv was necessary to jump an inch open air gap (it isn't). You claimed the microwave oven was using a half wave rectifier (it's not). Well, the Villard circuit predates you by a considerable margin. That's the circuit the microwave oven uses to generate 5kv of pulsed DC to power the magnetron. It was created in
1904. How did you miss it?I'll take anything you claim to know with more than a small bottle of salt. Someone who's been into electronics for anywhere near the length of time as you've claimed should be well beyond basic stuff, and shouldn't have missed something as obvious as that; or proceeded to argue about it. Yet, you did.
-- Women! Can't live with 'em and no resale value.
Oh, you don't need youtube for this.. It's just easier with a video...
See the first circuit diagram? Look familiar to you? :) The diode is reversed in the Microwave oven, but the concept is still the same. The microwave as you learned, is using a negative dc pulse, the circuit as shown is a positive dc pulse.
It's the same circuit you and another poster not only confused for being something else, but assumed I didn't know WTF I was writing about as you both did so. Not the case. I knew what I was writing about, neither of you actually did.
Many times. I originally learned about it in the early 1980s. And i've had many refreshers on it since then. It seems to be something that every serious instructor I've had wanted to ensure we knew and understood. I've been certified at one point or another to work on a variety of HV and LV stuff, so, this circuit came up several times. it's a real cheap way of acquiring high voltage.
I wouldn't waste my time, yours, or anyone elses here by writing bullshit that I couldn't support with facts, if asked and was necessary.
-- Nice computers don't go down
Great. Mr Villard would be pleased that you finally figured it out, if he were still alive today. He created it in 1904, so it's not like you and others haven't had plenty of time to familiarize yourselves with the circuit. Many others are based on it. If you're into high voltage, you've probably built one or more variations of it. You've used things that are using circuits based on it, too. CRT television sets are a good example...
That's what happens when you ASSUme things and roll with those assumptions. I appreciate your followup post though.
-- And God said: E = mv - Ze/r . . . and there *WAS* light!
Diesel wrote in news:XnsAB03AFAAAA65DHT1 @SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:
etc.
You obviously really know nothing about how an arc bridges an air gap.
From lightning to your precious death delivering pole pig, you still ain't got your head wrapped around the physics right.
If you remain hard headed about it, you never will.
Here's another industry standard for ya in the power distribution realm, which you claim is your alleyway...
4MV DC lines. 14 feet of clearance... required.Don't believe me? Please, dipshit, step into the space between ground and a 4MV line. Let me make the video.
Diesel wrote in news:XnsAB03AFAAAA65DHT1 @SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:
involved,
No, f*****ad. No goal post moving. *I* *TOLD* *YOU* what happens, and YOU have been trying to get out of the corner you painted yourself into ever since.
Here it is:
The POWER SOURCE has a delivery capacity. That could be a coin battery, a bank of maxwells getting ready to feed 15kA, a charged cloud bank, or a nuclear power grid fed substation transformer secondary.
IN EVERY CASE, there is a max generated voltage.
In every case, that said voltage is ONLY capable of breaching a very specific gap distance.
In NO CASE does the delivery capacity matter in the creation of an arc.
In EVERY case, ONCE the arc has been initiated, ONLY the power generation device capacity will determine how long it will be sustained.
In EVERY case, once initiated and sustained, an arc can bridge a much larger gap than that which initiated the spark.
You were already told this when I spoke of numerous youtube videos showing the opinging of HV breaker swithches at sub stations.
You said "in order to initiate the spark". That is what the entire discussion has been about, dumbass. You have been mumbling about what happens after the arc begins. You are flawed, child.
I ALREADY KNOW ABOUT POWER and what current flows in shorted nodes. I ALREADY KNOW that an arc is a short. Did not need you accusing me of being dangerous or the other stupid petty mumbling you have been making since I told you that you got it wrong.
I stated that VOLTAGE is what is required to bridge a gap. THAT is a FACT.
YOU refuted that. THAT is a FACT. You do NOT now get to move the goal post and describe what I have been telling YOU about all along.
And you accused me of dancing. Nice try, boy.
Diesel wrote in news:XnsAB03AFAAAA65DHT1@SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:
Please, you retarded f*ck. Eat an ounce or two over the next day or so. Then eat another ounce. Die from it, dumbfuck.
Diesel wrote in news:XnsAB03AFAB3FCBAHT1 @SB7B2EdC4.9ma4.rx:
No, child. Past the beginner level, we talk about C-W multipliers.
As far as I know, you deserve every insult I ever delivered your way.
ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.