Re: Getting electrocuted in bathtub

Mike Coon wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.plus.net:

Just an appliance in the water is not going to make a path through the body in either tub.

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** Pipes carrying hot and cold water are metal and grounded. With an appliance submerges in a tub full of soapy water, you better not touch a tap.

If the tub is cast metal and bonded to wet tiles and tiles and the floor, it is fairly well grounded.

Takes only 30ma to be fatal.

..... Phil

Myth Busters did a piece on this and showed it very much WOULD produce a cu rrent that would kill a person. It only takes a few mA of current to stop the heart. With the many mA of current flowing through the water it makes sense some of it would flow through the body. Remember, in water the skin resistance drops a lot and a person is very likely a better conductor than the water, or at least no worse.

--

  Rick C. 

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Such a scenario was featured in Season-3 of Goliath. (Great show, BTW) Might be the last season.

Only if they are metal, which is the point to his question.

If it's a slab floor, I would agree. Those would be sitting on concrete, not tiles. But not if it's on a typical wood construction floor above grade.

I don't know much about the rest but i know that lightning doesn't need a continuous path to ground. After all, it jumps 1000's of feet from the sky to the earth and it will also jump iirc a foot or more from one conductor to another. There are still grounded electrical outlets and afaik copper water pipes are very common. I have them.

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** No other kind found or allowed in most countries.

Plastic is only used for drain and sewerage pipes.

Plus outdoor hoses etc.

..... Phil

what? plastic is used all over the place for both drinking and heating water

Phil Allison wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Across the chest. Get it right.

A 100mA jolt from one leg to the other does NOT fibrillate the heart. But less than half that from one arm to the other (across the chest) can.

Regular defib paddles are dumping 30 or 40 mA in the region between the paddles.

In open heart surgery the defib paddles only push 2mA surges. Paddles right on the heart.

Even the Myth Busters got it wrong with their set-up and analysis.

The 'appliance' dropped into 'the tub' will use the gap between its two input terminals as a shortest path resistor and start passing current and heating the water in that gap. There *may* also be some current paths between the appliance 'hot' and the tub tap and or drain hardware if they are grounded. NOT if they are 'floating'. And the drain, not the taps is usually the only thing 'touching' the water. Sometimes the shower toggle lever.

Placing a person between the appliance / drain path will not likely place much of the current flowing through said person, and any it does push will not be much.

An electrocution will ocuur if the device got wet and then the user tries to pick it up and the arm (hot) is up out of the water (ground).

Rick C wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

I saw it and it was wrong.

micky wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Basic physics.

It takes a 77kV voltage source to bridge a 1 inch gap with 3kV per mm at sea level as the reference standard.

The smallest lightning bolt is over 6 Million Volts.

I think that AND the mostly even bigger mo fos can jump considerable gaps of several miles.

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** OK, the law was relaxed some years ago for new installations. So only a *tiny fraction* of what is in use now.

It's cheap and quick so plumbers* and short sighted customers love it.

Not to good in direct sun or over the long term.

Copper pipeg with braised joints is far superior and suitable for in wall piping with a 100 year life expectancy.

** Aussie definition of a plumber??

A turd strangler...

..... Phil

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** Yes, 30mA is what it takes.

From one hand to the other, the most commion event.

** Typical energies for a de-fib are 150 Joules over 5mS.

So about 30 amps at 1kV DC.

Nurses et alia stand well back while the operator does his job.

..... Phil

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** That crazy guy is BLOODY DANGEROUS !!

ROTFL

..... Phil

PEX is allowed most places.

indoor hoses (appliance hoses) are plastic too, but better constructed than garden hoses.

--
  When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

Phil Allison wrote in news:83294dc2-2841-4b17- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Not the open chest versions.

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** Shame they were NOT the kind you posted about.

" A 100mA jolt from one leg to the other does NOT fibrillate the heart. But less than half that from one arm to the other (across the chest) can.

Regular defib paddles are dumping 30 or 40 mA in the region between the paddles. "

Ho hummm....

...... Phil

water

PVC was invented Invented in 1935.

First used in the United States in 1952. That is a few years ago? Done prop erly it outlasts the galvanized iron pipe that was in use before PVC. Once again, you attempt to use your ignorance as proof of something that you are incapable of doing properly. I liked copper pipe, but it would split lengt hwise if it froze.