Nah - always driving the kids hither and yon... no beer for me unless we're staying home (only on Mondays thru the winter). I am a lightweight - one beer and I am tipy. I prefer bowls to beer, I can handle that better anyway. :)
Sherry in Vermont
Ewwwww!
Sherry in Vermont
OK, what is the spectrum of e.g. shattered glass sound or a gunshot? How high it goes when you strike high-hat or ride cymbal? What is the spectral width of even 1KHz square wave? Good analog gear will give you almost undistorted 10KHz square wave. What is the highest sine wave frequency that should be taken into the equation to make that 10KHz square wave to even remotedly resemble the original one?
-- ****************************************************************** * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ******************************************************************
Right, but ever tried getting a 10kHz square wave from a vinyl record? Does it REMOTELY resemble a square wave? Obviously vinyl records are NOT "good analog gear" which is what most people discovered decades ago.
Trevor.
Unfortunately many people cannot conceive of the idea that what "sounds better" to them, is NOT actually a more accurate reproduction of the original. Sad really.
Trevor.
No argument from me, and like many others I have lamented at the quality of some of the biggest selling CD's on the market. But obviously those buying Brittney Spears, Lady Ga Ga, Katy Perry etc. are happy, or not complaining enough, and I doubt they are looking for them on vinyl! However there are also many other recordings on CD that are actually OK, far more than is available on new vinyl IME.
Trevor.
Yep, there is no clean 10KHz square wave from vinyl, I agree. But it is better than that abruptly cut at 22KHz.
24/96 is way better, it covers all you can get from analog audio perfectly, no complaints.-- ****************************************************************** * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ******************************************************************
Once again -- people listen to the _music_ , not the accurate reproduction or whatever is good on paper. If one likes unhealthy charred barbeque steak there is no reason to persuade him steam boiled vegetables and turkey meat is healthier :)
-- ****************************************************************** * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ******************************************************************
Actually both are very close to sine waves, except one has far more noise and distortion.
Right, but recording vinyl to 24/96 is only kidding yourself.
Trevor.
Nobody has a problem with YOU listening to what YOU prefer, only the blanket claim that vinyl is the best source of music. Just the same as I don't care what others eat, as long as it's not illegal or unsustainable.
Trevor.
Nope. Not by mixing. You have to MODULATE the AMPLITUDE of a "carrier" with the intended "signal"..
Simply seeing something that appears to be "enveloped" does not mean that it is amplitude modulated. Linear summation does not get you there.
This is what happens when you let the deadheads in the with the techies!
:-)
Yeah, it's a sin to waste beer.
John
Time for a trigonometry refresher course:
Modulation is multiplication of two signals, e.g., for sine waves cos A * cos B.
A basic trigonometric identity tells us this is identical to:
0.5 cos(A+B) - 0.5 cos(A-B), which is a simple linear sum of sine waves.In conclusion, your assertion that linear summation can't get you a modulated waveform is wrong.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, it can, if you linearly sum the right components. If in the example I gace, I sum a 900 Hz, 1000 Hz and 1100 Hz sine save of the right amplitudes and phase, I will get a signal which is identical in every respect to the non-linear modulation of a 1 kHz carrier by a 100 Hz signal.
-- +--------------------------------+ + Dick Pierce | + Professional Audio Development | +--------------------------------+
Are you sure? Could it be semantics?
Funny, I thought modulation was using one signal to control the amplitude of another signal.
Multiplication?
Is it identical? Are you saying "sum" or "multiply"? They are different words. You should choose one.
The 'waveform' is not what is required to be modulated to qualify as AM. The amplitude of a carrier has to be modulated by the second signal.
Simple summation of the two signals is a summated pair of sine waves. Shows up a little different on the scope. Besides, you said multiply, not sum. So, two tens gets you a hundred?
Modulating the amplitude of one sine wave with the other is a different injection method. Two tens will get you twenty.
Ask your friendly neighborhood FFT.
Actually, cymbals are not really powerful sources of HF sound. They usually peak in the 8-10 KHz range and roll off at something like 12 dB/octave above that.
Nearly infinite, but how is this relevant to audio?
True. If you want very low distortion, the digital domain is where you go.
Do you mean "sounds like" or do you mean traces on the screen of an oscilliscope?
Not true. The problem with 10 KHz from the LP is that it has considerable inherent nonlinear distortion from geometric sources.
I use 24/96 for measurements, but for recording no one has ever proven that
44.1 KHz lacks audible fidelity.Fight this:
This is one reason why crappy analog tape and LPs sufficed for so many decades. Of course, the emergence of digital alternatives settled all that for 99+% of everybody.
Excluded middle argument noted. Properly grilled (but not charred) vegetables and meat can be a delicious treat.
No, something more fundamental than that: bad assumpti8ons.
That's what modulation is.
Yes, identical.
No, because you have two operations through different paths give the IDENTICAL result.
That's true if you choose that path. The result of modulation of a carrier by a signal IS the multiplecation of the carrier by the signal.
And when you do that multiplication using, in a simple example, a sine wave carrier of frequency f1 and a modulating signal of frequency f2, the result is THREE components, f1, f1-f2 and f1+f2.
AND, if you choose a different path, taking three sine waves of frequency f1, f1-f2 and f1+f2, each generated INDEPENDENTLY and perform a linear sum, and that means ADD, you will get the IDENTICAL modulated waveform.
No, in the example I gave earlier, I DID NOT say the summation of TWO sine waves, I said the sumation of THREE sine waves.
That's VERY different than what you are claiming.
Yes, if you, in fact, do the wrong thing, you get the wrong results.
Instead, do the righ thing: do NOT sum 100 Hz and 1000 Hz to get the equivalent of a 1000 Hz carrier modulated by a 100 Hz signal. If that's what you are doing, you're doing the worng thing.
Instead, sum (add) 900 Hz, 1000 Hz and 1100 Hz of the right phases and amplitudes, and it WILL BE IDENTICAL to a 1000Hz carrier modulated (multiplied) by a 100 Hz signal.
If you disagree, talk to Arnie: he borrowed my shovel and you're more than welcome to dig up Mr. Fourier and tell him how wrong he is.
Let us know how it works out for you.
-- +--------------------------------+ + Dick Pierce | + Professional Audio Development | +--------------------------------+
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