Pissed at FBI ! and whoever else is involved with this BS.

" Sorry, people don't get to keep their computers when going to prison for the crimes they commit with them. "

It's basically bullshit.

It's like taking away the entire internet cause the internet commited a crime.

It's not really the computer committing the crime.

Perhaps it's the software or the user, not the computer.

There could be a lot of other stuff on that computer that is critical for that person.

Some day computers may even be built into brains.

You still want to remove it ?!

I believe people should keep their computers to defend themselfes against charges.

Best FBI can do is remove the offending software. DONE.

Bye, Skybuck.

Hey, Skybuck, please consider the way that law enforcement works in most Western countries (and has, for many decades).

In most countries, LE can seize property for investigation, if they believe that it was involved in the commission of a crime. They do not have to prove this, at the time of the seizure... but they do (usually, in most countries) have to get a legal authorization for the seizure based on evidence they already have available.

Here in the U.S., the standard is that in order to get a search warrant (which allows for the seizure of property) they must have "probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation", and must present this supporting evidence to a judge for the warrant to be issued. In other words, they have to be able to convince a judge that a crime has probably been committed.

You seem to be saying that they should have to prove the particulars of the crime (and make this proof public), before they seize the computers which (possibly) contain the evidence. I'm not aware of any country in the world, whose legal system works that way.

As to your comments along the lines of "maybe they downloaded it and never used it, or just used it at home"... you might want to review your country's legal definition of "criminal conspiracy" to understand what sorts of participation or action are safe, and what's risky. Here in the U.S., actively participating in a group activity which is intended to break a law qualifies as "conspiracy" and is itself a crime even if one doesn't actually commit the illegal act him/herself.

Downloading malware tools might also violate national or other laws akin to those which forbid the possession of burglar's tools or certain kinds of weapons. Even if one doesn't use them, the mere act of having them in one's possession may be a crime. If the downloaded tools contain (e.g.) stolen login credentials... well, so much the worse for anyone found in possession of them.

Those who lie down with dogs, may reasonably expect to be suspected of having fleas :-)

If you don't like this state of affairs, you might try to lobby to change the laws in your country.

I can be very short to what you wrote about law and such.

There is also something called: "reasonability".

Computers contain terrabytes of data nowadays.

Not even 1% of that data was black shades and therefore seizure can be considered unreasonable.

Bye, Skybuck.

Credit card fraud.

With the same reasoning you can say that only the bullet was used for the murder. And it has even left the gun already. So the police may not seize the gun.

" With the same reasoning you can say that only the bullet was used for the murder. And it has even left the gun already. So the police may not seize the gun. "

Not at all.

Nowadays there could be an entire "The Matrix" inside a PC used for many many many purposes.

Are you seriously going to seizure an entire virtual world ?!

Bye, Skybuck.

" Credit card fraud. "

Perhaps I jumped the gun, perhaps not.

If the people raided "purchased" black shades then I can understand that, doesn't necessarily mean I agree with the seizures and such.

However if people's hardware was taken away just because they downloaded a free copy then the FBI is way out of line !

Also what do mobile phones and other hardware have to do with black shades ?

Now victims can't even mail or call a lawyer ?!

Bye, Skybuck.

Actually you can use your knife almost entirely for totally legitimate purposes, but you stab just one person and suddenly they're entitled to take it away.